• Brain
• CAcertInc
• Committee
• MeetingAgendasAndMinutes
• 2018-01-25-Logfile

Log of Board-meeting 2018-01-25-20:00 UTC

Timestamp all UTC +01:00

25.01.2018 [20:55:09] <amos_> hello?
25.01.2018 [20:56:27] <GuKKDevel> hello
25.01.2018 [21:00:20] <amos_> hi
25.01.2018 [21:02:50] <amos_> hi
25.01.2018 [21:03:00] <Etienne> Hello Amos
25.01.2018 [21:03:02] <GuKKDevel> who are you, if I may ask
25.01.2018 [21:03:25] <amos_> I'm the nominee for Public Officer (?), living in NSW Australia
25.01.2018 [21:03:28] <pnunn> Morning all. amos_ is our new public officer I believe.
25.01.2018 [21:03:36] <Etienne> Hello Karl-Heinz, Amos is maybe our new PO from NSW
25.01.2018 [21:04:17] <Peter> Good morning
25.01.2018 [21:04:24] <GuKKDevel> three pters? 
25.01.2018 [21:04:25] <Etienne> Hello Peter and Peter and Peter...
25.01.2018 [21:04:56] <pnunn> Morning PeterYull good to see you here, and Peter I believe both from OZ.
25.01.2018 [21:04:58] <PeterYuill> Hi, a bit confusing
25.01.2018 [21:05:16] <amos_> Let's all switch to Bruce, it'll make it less confusing...
25.01.2018 [21:05:18] <Peter> The Central Coast
25.01.2018 [21:05:39] <pnunn> Such an early start to a Public Holliday 
25.01.2018 [21:06:18] <Peter> Off to walk along the beach later.
25.01.2018 [21:06:32] <pnunn> Very nice.
25.01.2018 [21:06:42] <GuKKDevel> will brian come on today?
25.01.2018 [21:07:25] <Etienne> I hope so, maybe we will start with the pre-meeting until then?
25.01.2018 [21:07:31] <amos_> May I ask a general question in the meantime?
25.01.2018 [21:07:38] <Etienne> Yes, please
25.01.2018 [21:08:14] <GuKKDevel> we have a quorum I think
25.01.2018 [21:10:10] <Etienne> Yes, we have a quorum: pnunn, GuKKDevel and me.
25.01.2018 [21:10:35] <pnunn> You had a question amos_?
25.01.2018 [21:10:38] <GuKKDevel> amos: what question
25.01.2018 [21:11:07] <amos_> I haven't touched CAcert in ages so I need to do some catching up, but what's the use case for it in the age of free certs from Let's Encrypt?
25.01.2018 [21:12:00] <Etienne> With Let's Encrypt, you cannot sign e-mails.
25.01.2018 [21:12:07] <GuKKDevel> its the background: the web of trust
25.01.2018 [21:12:43] <Etienne> Let's Encrypt is in the browser, but you have to renwe it every 3 months, Cacert every two years.
25.01.2018 [21:12:56] <amos_> ok, got you.
25.01.2018 [21:13:13] <GuKKDevel> with cacert you know, each person having a number of points has been verifyed to be itsself at least three times
25.01.2018 [21:13:38] <amos_> how large is the active user base?
25.01.2018 [21:13:44] <Peter> if you use Let's Encrypt and SSL, you have to get the new private key every three months.
25.01.2018 [21:13:44] <Etienne> Let's encrypt does not check people, only adresses.
25.01.2018 [21:15:03] <Etienne> 12787 new user in 2017
25.01.2018 [21:15:12] <egal> you can reuse the old private keys ...
25.01.2018 [21:15:13] <Etienne> 26000 new certificates in 2017
25.01.2018 [21:15:42] <GuKKDevel> hi etienne , where to get this numbers?
25.01.2018 [21:15:52] <Etienne> Web of Trust totel 355 000 users - old and news together
25.01.2018 [21:16:00] <Etienne> https://secure.cacert.org/stats.php
25.01.2018 [21:16:11] <Etienne> you have to be logged in to see it
25.01.2018 [21:16:40] <Etienne> It is on the main page - if logged in - ->about CAcert -> Statistics
25.01.2018 [21:16:55] <egal> http://www.cacert.org/stats.php works without login ... 
25.01.2018 [21:17:06] <GuKKDevel> hi dirk
25.01.2018 [21:17:09] <egal> (for secure.cacert.org you have to be logged in)
25.01.2018 [21:17:41] <amos_> wow. thanks
25.01.2018 [21:17:48] <egal> hi everybody ... 
25.01.2018 [21:18:24] <amos_> do we have stats about how certs are used, or how much?
25.01.2018 [21:18:28] <egal> (will be online partially ... have to do other stuff this evening ... busy as always ... )
25.01.2018 [21:18:48] <Etienne> The dropping numbers are do that we dicovered some weeks ago, that since 2016 little by little Chrome and Mozilla removed a html tag we use to create Certs.
25.01.2018 [21:19:11] <Etienne> A task force is looking for a solution.
25.01.2018 [21:19:46] <amos_> is there a URL about the issue?
25.01.2018 [21:21:31] <Etienne> http://bugs.cacert.org/view.php?id=1417
25.01.2018 [21:21:35] <pnunn> Should we start? Not sure were going to see the President so guess it falls to me.
25.01.2018 [21:21:57] <Etienne> @pnunn: yes, please
25.01.2018 [21:22:16] <pnunn> Etienne, can you please post he link to the agenda here?
25.01.2018 [21:22:29] <Etienne> https://wiki.cacert.org/Brain/CAcertInc/Committee/MeetingAgendasAndMinutes/2018-01-25
25.01.2018 [21:22:39] <pnunn> Thank you.
25.01.2018 [21:23:16] <Etienne> 1. Chair opens the Committee Meeting 
25.01.2018 [21:23:43] <pnunn> So be it.. just looking at Karl-Heinz's great minutes from last meeting.
25.01.2018 [21:24:12] <pnunn> I move we accept the minutes from the last meeting as being correct.
25.01.2018 [21:24:18] <Etienne> second and aye
25.01.2018 [21:24:23] <GuKKDevel> abs
25.01.2018 [21:25:14] <GuKKDevel> i just see there is a mistake in the order of the aganda
25.01.2018 [21:25:14] <pnunn> aye and accepted.
25.01.2018 [21:25:15] <amos_> I guess I can't vote yet
25.01.2018 [21:25:34] <GuKKDevel> guesssed right
25.01.2018 [21:25:43] <GuKKDevel> *smile*
25.01.2018 [21:26:20] <GuKKDevel> for next meeting this point be after questioning whos making minutes
25.01.2018 [21:26:25] <pnunn> GukKDevel are you prepaired to do the minutes again please?
25.01.2018 [21:26:36] <GuKKDevel> I'll do
25.01.2018 [21:26:44] <pnunn> Thank you.
25.01.2018 [21:27:04] <pnunn> So, 2.1.1
25.01.2018 [21:27:10] <GuKKDevel> are there any time limit today
25.01.2018 [21:27:27] <Etienne> as fast as possible 
25.01.2018 [21:27:40] <GuKKDevel> sure
25.01.2018 [21:28:18] <pnunn> We have several people on line with us who have kindly responded to my request for help. amos_ has been talking to Etienne about accepting the PO position, I've spoken to PeterYulll on the phone, and Peter has also expressed interest in committee positions.
25.01.2018 [21:28:53] <pnunn> PeterYulll has been on the board previously and Peter as well (?).
25.01.2018 [21:29:04] <GuKKDevel> may I ask who peter only is
25.01.2018 [21:29:08] <Etienne> There is one place as PO, one place in the committee and furthermore sveral places in teams and task forces.
25.01.2018 [21:29:30] <GuKKDevel> in etiennes mail there were three peters named
25.01.2018 [21:29:51] <Peter> I have previous experience on other boards, not CAcert.
25.01.2018 [21:31:11] <pnunn> So if all are in agreement I move we accept all three as members of CACert as a starting point.
25.01.2018 [21:31:17] <Peter> Web architect/guru/developer by trade
25.01.2018 [21:32:02] <GuKKDevel> may I ask all thre of them to introduce themselves here on the list? 
25.01.2018 [21:32:03] <Etienne> If you agree - after beeing appointed - to be member of CAcert Inc, this cost 10 Euros per annum.
25.01.2018 [21:32:21] <Etienne> annual fee
25.01.2018 [21:33:09] <GuKKDevel> for documentary reasons we need to know their full names
25.01.2018 [21:33:53] <Peter> Assured back in 2007 when actively using certs for test web sites. User 108623
25.01.2018 [21:33:54] <GuKKDevel> and formally we need to accept them as members of CAcert INC
25.01.2018 [21:33:57] <amos_> Amos - been programming since I was ten, administrating and programming UNIX system for over 30 years now. Concentrating on automation. Working for AWS since last year.
25.01.2018 [21:34:33] <amos_> full name - Amos Yitzhak Shapira
25.01.2018 [21:34:47] <GuKKDevel> sorry to ask Amos what means AWS
25.01.2018 [21:35:00] <amos_> Address - 1/74 Cairo St. Cammeray NSW 2062
25.01.2018 [21:35:03] <Peter> Assurer challenge 2010
25.01.2018 [21:35:04] <amos_> AWS - Amazon Web Services
25.01.2018 [21:35:10] <GuKKDevel> thx
25.01.2018 [21:35:32] <PeterYuill> Recently retired software developer, about 30 years, now active in open source projects.
25.01.2018 [21:35:51] <amos_> LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/gliderflyer/
25.01.2018 [21:35:53] <PeterYuill> Peter Russel Yuill
25.01.2018 [21:36:30] <Peter> Peter Val Moulding 
25.01.2018 [21:36:34] <Peter> https://petermoulding.com/
25.01.2018 [21:36:49] <Peter> graduated in December
25.01.2018 [21:37:24] <Etienne> congratulations!
25.01.2018 [21:37:38] <GuKKDevel> congrats from me too
25.01.2018 [21:38:17] <amos_> congratulations
25.01.2018 [21:39:02] <GuKKDevel> at least we have to ask you all if there is any conflict of interest for you working at board of cacert (as working for another CA-Authority .....)
25.01.2018 [21:39:33] <Peter> No conflict.
25.01.2018 [21:39:39] <GuKKDevel> least = last = latest = final
25.01.2018 [21:39:39] <PeterYuill> No conflict for me
25.01.2018 [21:39:49] <amos_> AWS issues certificates for free to its users as far as I know. I don't handle this in my work.
25.01.2018 [21:40:19] <pnunn> Thank you gentlemen. Back to my motion now?
25.01.2018 [21:40:22] <amos_> https://aws.amazon.com/certificate-manager/faqs/
25.01.2018 [21:40:39] <Etienne> Peter Yuill is allready member of CAcert Inc.
25.01.2018 [21:41:02] <PeterYuill> Not sure I am financial.
25.01.2018 [21:41:51] <GuKKDevel> so the others need to be allowed to become members first
25.01.2018 [21:41:53] <Etienne> paid up until 2017
25.01.2018 [21:42:20] <Etienne> invoices for 2018 have not been sent yeet by the treasurer
25.01.2018 [21:42:39] <pnunn> Modified motion: I move we accept Amos and Peter Moulding as members of CaCert.
25.01.2018 [21:42:39] <PeterYuill> ok
25.01.2018 [21:42:52] <GuKKDevel> second and aye
25.01.2018 [21:43:16] <GuKKDevel> if you get the whole name of amos please into the motion
25.01.2018 [21:43:41] <Etienne> aye
25.01.2018 [21:44:02] <pnunn> Certainly.. add Amos Shapira to the motion above.
25.01.2018 [21:44:23] <pnunn> or more correctly, modify Amos to Amos Shapira.
25.01.2018 [21:44:35] <GuKKDevel> *grins*
25.01.2018 [21:44:42] <pnunn> Thank you and welcome to the new members and an existing one.
25.01.2018 [21:44:51] <amos_> thank you
25.01.2018 [21:44:54] <GuKKDevel> welcome
25.01.2018 [21:45:50] <pnunn> Appointment to Committee. Etienne, what is the procedure here. What positions can we appoint, and if we have more willing hands what is the process?
25.01.2018 [21:46:02] <Peter> What is the secret handshake?  
25.01.2018 [21:46:12] <GuKKDevel> at this stage board has five australian members one american and to european , correct?
25.01.2018 [21:46:25] <Etienne> No.
25.01.2018 [21:46:37] <Etienne> We appointed Amos and Peter as members.
25.01.2018 [21:47:02] <GuKKDevel> correct so we first have to get them into board
25.01.2018 [21:47:51] <pnunn> Well I guess the first one is PO. I move we appoint Amos Yitzhak Shapira to the position of Public Officer.
25.01.2018 [21:47:51] <Etienne> No we can appoint members as PO and board members. But the statutes limites board to 7.
25.01.2018 [21:47:53] <amos_> are we supposed to go by order of the agenda? if os there is a committee appointment first?
25.01.2018 [21:48:06] <amos_> s/os/so/
25.01.2018 [21:48:22] <Etienne> PO is more a formal task with about 30 min of work / year. Board meetings are public. Interested people can allways join and if concerned and constructif participate - just not formal vote.
25.01.2018 [21:48:49] <PeterYuill> I am happy to take a back seat, maybe do some work on software.
25.01.2018 [21:49:20] <Etienne> So we can welcome everyone to be part of the active people, but only one PO chair and one chair at the board. Maybe we can create a subcommittee with frther places
25.01.2018 [21:49:44] <GuKKDevel> I don't know if PO has to be member of the committee
25.01.2018 [21:50:13] <Etienne> No, PO is co-"acting Treasurer" on behalf of CAcert Inc. President (m20110206)
25.01.2018 [21:50:15] <GuKKDevel> what says law?
25.01.2018 [21:50:46] <Etienne> NSW residents and having a street address in NSW.
25.01.2018 [21:50:56] <PeterYuill> In the past PO was not on the board.
25.01.2018 [21:51:02] <GuKKDevel> ok
25.01.2018 [21:51:23] <amos_> I'm digging up the form that was sent to me two days ago
25.01.2018 [21:51:37] <GuKKDevel> so we have to question our new members, who wants to join board
25.01.2018 [21:51:52] <amos_> from the form:
25.01.2018 [21:51:57] <amos_> The public officer of the association must:
25.01.2018 [21:51:58] <amos_> * be aged 18 years or more,
25.01.2018 [21:51:58] <amos_> * reside in NSW,
25.01.2018 [21:51:59] <amos_> * not be a bankrupt, and
25.01.2018 [21:52:01] <amos_> * not be a mentally incapacitated person.
25.01.2018 [21:52:41] <amos_> nothing about committee membership
25.01.2018 [21:52:42] <Etienne> So, maybe PeterYuill in the background helping with Software, Amos as PO and Peter in the board, all 3 allways welcome to the meetings?? What do you think?
25.01.2018 [21:52:49] <Peter> OK with board. How often are meetings?
25.01.2018 [21:53:17] <PeterYuill> Fine with me.
25.01.2018 [21:53:19] <pnunn> That sounds like a plan. Perhaps we can co-opt Peter to help out with the software as well by the sounds of his skills.
25.01.2018 [21:53:41] <Etienne> If possible once a month - this works, if we replay to internal e-mails within 2-3 days.
25.01.2018 [21:54:15] <Peter> Would change all the short tags to full tags.
25.01.2018 [21:55:05] <GuKKDevel>  what do you mean with that peter
25.01.2018 [21:55:14] <Etienne> There are some tasks at software, if a board member is involved, we are closer too this.
25.01.2018 [21:55:22] <GuKKDevel> I'm no nativ speaker
25.01.2018 [21:55:35] <pnunn> So two motions then? I move we accept Peter Moulding to a position on the board.
25.01.2018 [21:55:50] <Etienne> second and aye
25.01.2018 [21:55:54] <GuKKDevel> aye
25.01.2018 [21:56:20] <pnunn> I further move we appoint Amos Yitzhak Shapira as Public Officer.
25.01.2018 [21:56:28] <GuKKDevel> are we three Australians at board then?
25.01.2018 [21:56:42] <GuKKDevel> wait
25.01.2018 [21:56:55] <GuKKDevel> this would be next point
25.01.2018 [21:56:57] <Peter> change PHP short tag <? to the PHP long tag
25.01.2018 [21:57:26] <pnunn> Correct we are now at 2.3
25.01.2018 [21:57:32] <GuKKDevel> doesnt say anithing to me peter
25.01.2018 [21:57:43] <Etienne> Peter Nunn, Ross Krumbholz and Peter Moulding are three Australian residents. Yes.
25.01.2018 [21:58:07] <GuKKDevel> ok so this would be with the law
25.01.2018 [21:58:10] <pnunn> Although I am a little concerned about the lack of presence of Ross for the last few meetings.
25.01.2018 [21:58:12] <Etienne> Peter, do you accept this appointment to the board?
25.01.2018 [21:58:19] <GuKKDevel> so am I
25.01.2018 [21:58:24] <pnunn> Sorry I moved it so aye.
25.01.2018 [21:58:43] <Peter> yes
25.01.2018 [21:58:45] <Etienne> Thank you and welcome to the committee
25.01.2018 [21:58:59] <pnunn> Oh.. too many peters!!
25.01.2018 [21:59:28] <pnunn> So, now 2.3 (sorry, getting a bit ahead of the meeting here).
25.01.2018 [21:59:30] <amos_> perhaps switch to last names?
25.01.2018 [21:59:42] <PeterYuill> You can co-opt me at a future meeting if Ross is gone.
25.01.2018 [21:59:55] <GuKKDevel> now could we talk PeterYuill ino joining the committee?
25.01.2018 [22:00:05] <GuKKDevel> ino/into
25.01.2018 [22:00:36] <pnunn> I believe he has just volunteered to do so  Thank you PeterYuill.
25.01.2018 [22:01:18] <pnunn> I move we accept Amos Yitzhak Shapira to the position of Public Officer.
25.01.2018 [22:01:28] <Etienne> second and aye
25.01.2018 [22:01:44] <GuKKDevel> so please pnunn do the motion for Peter Yuill first
25.01.2018 [22:01:45] <Etienne> @Peter: you can vote now
25.01.2018 [22:02:45] <Etienne> @GuKKDevel we cannot do a motion for Peter Yuill, as we have 7 members. Maybe for a team or a subcommittee.
25.01.2018 [22:02:58] <pnunn> Karl-Heintz I'm not sure we can as the committee is now full is it not? 
25.01.2018 [22:03:26] <GuKKDevel> we were five now we six
25.01.2018 [22:03:47] <GuKKDevel> pnunn etienne brian me ross
25.01.2018 [22:04:14] <Etienne> Sorry, you are right. Peter remplaces Alex, but no one Gero!
25.01.2018 [22:04:20] <Etienne> or Dirk
25.01.2018 [22:04:33] <GuKKDevel> now we added peter 
25.01.2018 [22:04:49] <pnunn> Ahh.. in that case. I move we appoint PeterYuill also to the committee.
25.01.2018 [22:05:03] <GuKKDevel> second and aye
25.01.2018 [22:05:06] <Etienne> aye
25.01.2018 [22:05:34] <Peter> yes
25.01.2018 [22:06:21] <pnunn> PeterYuill?
25.01.2018 [22:06:52] <PeterYuill> I didn't think I could vote
25.01.2018 [22:06:58] <pnunn> No, accept?
25.01.2018 [22:07:07] <PeterYuill> Ok, I accept
25.01.2018 [22:07:18] <pnunn> Thank you. Now you can vote 
25.01.2018 [22:07:21] <GuKKDevel> great and welcome
25.01.2018 [22:07:50] <pnunn> So, are we done on 2.2?
25.01.2018 [22:08:03] <GuKKDevel> think so
25.01.2018 [22:08:10] <amos_> still 2.2.3
25.01.2018 [22:08:32] <pnunn> OK, now, 2.2.3 (yes sorry, was a .2 short).
25.01.2018 [22:08:53] <pnunn> I move we accept Amos Yitzhak Shapira to the position of Public Officer.
25.01.2018 [22:09:02] <Etienne> second and aye
25.01.2018 [22:09:07] <PeterYuill> aye
25.01.2018 [22:09:31] <amos_> I accept
25.01.2018 [22:09:40] <GuKKDevel> abs
25.01.2018 [22:09:56] <pnunn> Thank you Amos and welcome.
25.01.2018 [22:10:12] <GuKKDevel> peter your vote is missing
25.01.2018 [22:10:21] <Peter> yes
25.01.2018 [22:10:27] <amos_> thanks
25.01.2018 [22:10:32] <Peter> yes to Amos
25.01.2018 [22:11:08] <amos_> I'll need help with details of the form to the the office of fair trading, I think it's better to take this offline after the meeting
25.01.2018 [22:11:39] <Etienne> No problems, Amos.
25.01.2018 [22:11:43] <pnunn> Etienne, what order is important now, 2.3 or 2.4? I suspect both Peter's here can input into these with some more information.
25.01.2018 [22:12:18] <Etienne> I think so.
25.01.2018 [22:12:37] <pnunn> So 2.3 first?
25.01.2018 [22:12:37] <Peter> 2.3 Would the hosting sponsor help?
25.01.2018 [22:13:17] <pnunn> Can someone give some brief background on the OS issue if there is any.
25.01.2018 [22:13:42] <PeterYuill> Is there a report from the software team?
25.01.2018 [22:14:09] <Etienne> https://wiki.cacert.org/AGM/TeamReports/2017#Critical
25.01.2018 [22:14:22] <GuKKDevel> if dirk gets our testservers online, we could start testing, as sourcecode was changed to fullfill the parameters of the new OS with PHP7
25.01.2018 [22:15:15] <pnunn> Is dirk still with us? egal?
25.01.2018 [22:15:17] <PeterYuill> Is there a current work plan?
25.01.2018 [22:15:40] <GuKKDevel> all statements using the deprecated MYSQL-engine were replaced by the according msqli-engine-statements
25.01.2018 [22:16:07] <Etienne> No plan, I think as this report is recent.
25.01.2018 [22:16:31] <GuKKDevel> msqli-engine-statements\mysqli-engine-statements
25.01.2018 [22:17:33] <GuKKDevel_> we first have to get our testservers online and working again as the previous was wound down by the former owners
25.01.2018 [22:18:01] <amos_> what's the cost like?
25.01.2018 [22:18:08] <PeterY> Sorry, lost my connection
25.01.2018 [22:18:23] <GuKKDevel_> costs of time
25.01.2018 [22:18:47] <GuKKDevel_>  as dirk is the only left sofware-assessor with the nessesary right
25.01.2018 [22:19:27] <pnunn> Is this something you could perhaps help dirk with PeterY?
25.01.2018 [22:19:44] <egal> being on the phone currently ...
25.01.2018 [22:19:51] -*- egal is dirk 
25.01.2018 [22:19:52] <Peter> I can help with PHP
25.01.2018 [22:19:56] <pnunn> I'm not sure what the process is?
25.01.2018 [22:20:29] <PeterY> I am not a debian expert by any means, but maybe.
25.01.2018 [22:20:47] <Etienne> people do the work, then someone else - software assesor = Dirk - checks the code.
25.01.2018 [22:20:57] <egal> https://wiki.cacert.org/AGM/TeamReports/2017#SoftwareDevelopment
25.01.2018 [22:22:14] <PeterY> Seems like we need another software assesor if Dirk is too busy.
25.01.2018 [22:22:20] <amos_> If I may interject - perhaps moving to a more current software development standard could help here.
25.01.2018 [22:23:08] <GuKKDevel_> we are happy to have our workload done without restructuring at the moment
25.01.2018 [22:23:32] <pnunn> Is that a role you could take on PeterY? I have no idea what the procedure is to appoint software accessors.
25.01.2018 [22:23:58] <Peter> I converted OpenBiblio from mysql to PHP 7 compatible cost that can use mysqli or PDO.
25.01.2018 [22:24:12] <GuKKDevel_> you have to do a arbitrated background check first
25.01.2018 [22:24:44] <GuKKDevel_> in this stage I remaining since october 2016
25.01.2018 [22:24:54] <Etienne> @amos_: I don't know exactly for Software, but things may be regulated by policies and some posts need a security check = ABC. 
25.01.2018 [22:25:09] <GuKKDevel_> as there are so less active arbitrators
25.01.2018 [22:25:26] <Etienne> ABC are not possible at the moment, as Arbitration is not really working to lack of personnel.
25.01.2018 [22:25:54] <pnunn> So, what is the way forward here? We need to get dirk some help, how do we do that and what help does dirk want?
25.01.2018 [22:26:25] <Etienne> We are re-building CAcert after the troubles in early 2016...
25.01.2018 [22:27:29] <Etienne> Maybe Peter+Peter+Dirk do a seperatly held Software-chat next days?
25.01.2018 [22:27:39] <GuKKDevel> for 2.3 we can't do nothing more as to wait, that Dirk gets the Testservers in a good working fashion.
25.01.2018 [22:28:01] <pnunn> OK, we don't seem to be getting anywhere here, can I suggest that we ask dirk to coordinate with anyone here he thinks can help out outside the meeting.
25.01.2018 [22:28:19] <PeterY> I am happy to take that off line with Dirk and Peter
25.01.2018 [22:28:29] <pnunn> Thank you.
25.01.2018 [22:28:55] <GuKKDevel> please include me into that chat
25.01.2018 [22:29:28] <pnunn> Good call GuKKDevel. Is there any feedback on the next item?
25.01.2018 [22:29:45] <GuKKDevel> we also have some mailinglists which you could use
25.01.2018 [22:29:57] <GuKKDevel> Item 2.4
25.01.2018 [22:30:05] <GuKKDevel> no good news
25.01.2018 [22:30:12] <pnunn> Which list would be best GuKKDevel?
25.01.2018 [22:30:58] <GuKKDevel> cacert-devel would be one
25.01.2018 [22:31:09] <pnunn> Thank you.
25.01.2018 [22:31:17] <GuKKDevel> there all developers should be 
25.01.2018 [22:31:49] <PeterY> OK, will make contact there
25.01.2018 [22:32:07] <GuKKDevel> I asked first cacert-support-team and then cacert-support
25.01.2018 [22:32:14] <pnunn> Can we perhaps give a little background to our new members on 2.4?
25.01.2018 [22:32:57] <amos_> I read the link. the tag cacert uses was deprecated.
25.01.2018 [22:32:57] <GuKKDevel> the only answer ig ot was a solution I belief doesn't work
25.01.2018 [22:34:01] <GuKKDevel> we got the problem that most browsers dont support the used htmltag anymore
25.01.2018 [22:34:24] <GuKKDevel> the keygen-tag is deprecated 
25.01.2018 [22:34:49] <GuKKDevel> only in one browser (firefox) in some versions it works
25.01.2018 [22:35:16] <PeterY> Also Safari, but only on Mac
25.01.2018 [22:35:58] <GuKKDevel> now there was the proposal to generate the keys outside of the browsers and to insert them into our pages
25.01.2018 [22:37:23] <GuKKDevel> but today I searched the source and at the moment I don't belief it works assuggested, as this insertion is at another point of the procss as it should be
25.01.2018 [22:38:14] <GuKKDevel> you can test with creating a new cert to the point where you are asket to create a new certificat
25.01.2018 [22:38:47] <GuKKDevel> so this will take time to resolve
25.01.2018 [22:39:25] <GuKKDevel> but it isn't that urent as 2.3 and 2.5
25.01.2018 [22:39:32] <GuKKDevel> urgent
25.01.2018 [22:40:15] <GuKKDevel> ready
25.01.2018 [22:40:46] <pnunn> OK, so I guess if anyone has any ideas on possible fixes, communicate them with GuKKDevel.
25.01.2018 [22:40:58] <Peter> The link for keygen contains a lot of links with a lot of reading
25.01.2018 [22:41:27] <pnunn> Moving on then to 2.5. 
25.01.2018 [22:41:41] <pnunn> Do you have an update GuKKDevel or Etienne?
25.01.2018 [22:41:49] <GuKKDevel> if you have access to cacerts bugtracker its bug 1417 
25.01.2018 [22:43:01] <GuKKDevel> I sent gero (dops) a mail 10 days ago to give me information about handover but it seems it went to spam/junk as he hasn't answered me jet
25.01.2018 [22:43:17] <Etienne> http://bugs.cacert.org/view.php?id=1417
25.01.2018 [22:43:38] <Etienne> @GuKKDevel: Gero takes time to answer.
25.01.2018 [22:44:07] <Peter> 2.5 The Wiki page on Inc members says there is no longer a marketing team. Who generates leads for sponsorship etc?
25.01.2018 [22:44:54] <GuKKDevel> looks like this is work of treasurer.
25.01.2018 [22:44:57] <pnunn> I suspect the answer is no one at the moment Peter. It seems to me that we need a good sponsor to get us out of this immediate situation.
25.01.2018 [22:45:31] <PeterY> Is there a 2 line summary of the situation?
25.01.2018 [22:45:43] <GuKKDevel> or to ask in our mailinglost for donation I thing about CAcert, cacert-fr, cacert-de and alike
25.01.2018 [22:46:06] <pnunn> Is this something that RedHat or SuSE would be likely to take an interest in?
25.01.2018 [22:46:27] <GuKKDevel> it would be great if they did
25.01.2018 [22:46:54] <pnunn> The two line summary is that if we keep things the way they are, we will be out of money to pay for hosting etc by the middle of this year (which is fast approaching).
25.01.2018 [22:47:21] <Etienne> first, send the invoice for the annual fee. this will be about 700€ I suppose, when we ask to send a little more to fund the move to Europe...
25.01.2018 [22:47:37] <GuKKDevel> 700 of 7000
25.01.2018 [22:47:38] <amos_> How much do we pay for hosting?
25.01.2018 [22:49:15] <PeterY> I could try my old contacts at Red Hat, but they move on pretty quickly.
25.01.2018 [22:49:29] <GuKKDevel> https://wiki.cacert.org/AGM/FinancialReport/2017
25.01.2018 [22:50:09] <Etienne> But there are some extras included, bills from 2016 paid in 2017. It is less than 7000.
25.01.2018 [22:50:29] <Etienne> @egal: how much is the hosting usually?
25.01.2018 [22:50:30] <pnunn> Any help would be great PeterY.
25.01.2018 [22:51:15] <egal> it's around 450 euros/quarter = 1800 euros/year for hosting (which means: rack in datacenter, access control ...)
25.01.2018 [22:51:24] <amos_> does it have to be in Europe?
25.01.2018 [22:51:32] <pnunn> I guess I need to say also that I'm not convinced that putting resources into moving the organization, given we have the current committee situation sorted now is a useful thing.
25.01.2018 [22:51:47] <pnunn> Surely we would be better placed getting things back on a running footing first.
25.01.2018 [22:51:50] <egal> additionally: approx. 70 euro/month for power and internet usage
25.01.2018 [22:52:49] <egal> these are the sponsored prices from BIT ... and we have personal there (at or next to the BIT datacenter) as the critical team
25.01.2018 [22:52:55] <Etienne> Europe: The Netherlands have very strict data protectiong laws. This is good for reputation.
25.01.2018 [22:53:32] <egal> if we move the servers to somewhere else we have to build up a new critical team there ...
25.01.2018 [22:54:18] -*- egal speaking currently using the secure-u board members hat 
25.01.2018 [22:55:06] <GuKKDevel> as they have to have an ABC this would take time
25.01.2018 [22:55:09] <Etienne> So, if I do the addition, we talk about 2700€. 700 member fees and 2000 donations. Member fees were only 517.23 last year. Means reactivate some members!
25.01.2018 [22:55:10] <pnunn> I think physically moving the servers would be difficult and not helpful. 
25.01.2018 [22:55:43] <amos_> I was thinking more abut taking advantage of cloud options.
25.01.2018 [22:56:14] <amos_> makes it easy to manage the servers from anywhere in the world, plus things like on-demand test servers, for instance.
25.01.2018 [22:56:22] <GuKKDevel> sorry wihthout me
25.01.2018 [22:56:22] <Etienne> Maybe we do not need anymore a bank account? 554 bank fees looks very high to me.
25.01.2018 [22:57:10] <pnunn> That is very high. Who is the account with? I didn't think westpac fees were anywhere near that.
25.01.2018 [22:57:17] <GuKKDevel> I don't trust clouders
25.01.2018 [22:57:19] <Etienne> Westpac
25.01.2018 [22:58:09] <pnunn> I'm with you GuKKDevel  much rather be on my own iron.  Etienne can you send me the account details off list and I'll make some calls.
25.01.2018 [22:58:22] <PeterY> I am guessing the big issue with cloud servers is the security of signing keys
25.01.2018 [22:59:04] <Etienne> @pnunn: I have only https://wiki.cacert.org/AGM/FinancialReport/2017 for the rest, Gero has it or handed it over to GuKKDevel
25.01.2018 [22:59:13] <pnunn> My issue with cloud servers PeterY is that I like to know where my data is. But that's a discussion for another day 
25.01.2018 [22:59:33] <GuKKDevel> see above gero pnunn,Etienne
25.01.2018 [22:59:41] <pnunn> OK, thanks.
25.01.2018 [22:59:56] <GuKKDevel> it is at gero
25.01.2018 [23:00:33] <PeterY> Maybe that line item includes PayPal fees?
25.01.2018 [23:01:00] <GuKKDevel> PeterY: as there was no handover yet, would you like to take the post of treasurer
25.01.2018 [23:01:02] <pnunn> OK, I think I have an off cacert email address for him. I'll see if I can get any more details too. If you get anything in the mean time GuKKDevel perhaps you could send them to me.
25.01.2018 [23:02:44] <PeterY> @GuKKDevel I do not have any financial background, would be a slow start
25.01.2018 [23:03:00] <GuKKDevel> ok
25.01.2018 [23:03:56] <GuKKDevel> but we all should think about a way to get money, whats about a fundraising platform
25.01.2018 [23:04:07] <pnunn> I guess it pays to ask, amos_ or Peter do either of you have any background in finance?
25.01.2018 [23:04:31] <amos_> sorry no. I'm a software developer
25.01.2018 [23:05:30] <pnunn> We should have had someone at linuxconf that has just finished in Sydney. I didn't go and must admit didn't even think about trying to push there until it was too late. 
25.01.2018 [23:05:32] <GuKKDevel> I'll take my part pnunn Ithought only about the contacts of PeterY
25.01.2018 [23:06:02] <Peter> Did some marketing for companies. Mostly keynote speeches. Not funraising.
25.01.2018 [23:06:26] <pnunn> Do we have anything to actually sell on a funding page at the  moment? Seems to me we need to sort out the current issues if we can and then try and sell it as a new start perhaps?
25.01.2018 [23:07:00] <PeterY> I know someone who has experience in small scale fundraising, will contact her also.
25.01.2018 [23:07:43] <pnunn> When do we think we'll have the invoices for this year out Etienne? Any ideas at all yet?
25.01.2018 [23:07:50] <Etienne> https://shop.spreadshirt.de/cacertshop/
25.01.2018 [23:08:15] <GuKKDevel> I suppose to collect all suggestions in the next time so I can concentrate them for the next meeting
25.01.2018 [23:08:59] <GuKKDevel> sorry i suggest
25.01.2018 [23:09:01] <pnunn> Sounds like a plan. Thank you GuKKDevel and I guess if anyone has anything to suggest, communicate it on the board mail list.
25.01.2018 [23:09:34] <GuKKDevel> preferred at the board-list and not only board-private
25.01.2018 [23:09:39] <Etienne> Invoices: When you want - means: when you have access to the ERP. gero Affenschwanz innocircle dot com
25.01.2018 [23:09:50] <Peter> Do the invoices have a newsletter saysing what will happen this year?
25.01.2018 [23:10:07] <Etienne> We could do this.
25.01.2018 [23:10:18] <Peter> What they will get for their money
25.01.2018 [23:10:24] <pnunn> Ahh.. OK. so a lot is riding on getting Gero sorted. 
25.01.2018 [23:11:33] <pnunn> Well, I guess we are not going to get much further on this today. Is there anything else anyone wants to discuss as there are no more items on the agenda?
25.01.2018 [23:12:25] <Etienne> Question time and next date
25.01.2018 [23:12:37] <Peter> No questions
25.01.2018 [23:13:12] <pnunn> If there are no questions.. the next date is the issue. Do we want a months time?
25.01.2018 [23:13:13] <PeterY> None from me right now
25.01.2018 [23:13:24] <egal> no questions from my site ...
25.01.2018 [23:13:49] <amos_> no questions from me
25.01.2018 [23:14:15] <GuKKDevel> would fit to me as I'm mostly offline the next four weeks
25.01.2018 [23:14:18] <egal> if somebody wants to contact me regarding software/software assessment / support / ... : dirk@c.o.
25.01.2018 [23:14:54] <pnunn> Thank you Dirk.
25.01.2018 [23:14:54] <pnunn> That would make it the 23rd Feb if this time suites everyone (22nd in the rest of the world).
25.01.2018 [23:14:59] <PeterY> @egal will do
25.01.2018 [23:15:44] <PeterY> Fine for me
25.01.2018 [23:15:45] <GuKKDevel> would be fine for me
25.01.2018 [23:15:52] <Peter> 23rd is good
25.01.2018 [23:15:55] <Etienne> I am sorry, this week I am not online.
25.01.2018 [23:16:10] <GuKKDevel> or could it be 23/24
25.01.2018 [23:16:15] <pnunn> OK, a week later?
25.01.2018 [23:16:45] <Peter> March 2 ok for me
25.01.2018 [23:16:52] <pnunn> Which would be 1/2 March?
25.01.2018 [23:16:54] <amos_> should be ok for me too.
25.01.2018 [23:17:06] <Etienne> 1/2 March is OK
25.01.2018 [23:17:20] <GuKKDevel> 1/2 ok
25.01.2018 [23:17:35] <Etienne> 1st of March 1848 Revolution in Neuchâtel...
25.01.2018 [23:18:03] <PeterY> 1/2 March is fine
25.01.2018 [23:18:15] <pnunn> So much history 
25.01.2018 [23:18:21] <pnunn> Then so be it.
25.01.2018 [23:18:28] <GuKKDevel> same time
25.01.2018 [23:18:44] <pnunn> Yes, if that works for everyone.
25.01.2018 [23:18:55] <Etienne> @Peter: Can you give me your address please for the member register.
25.01.2018 [23:19:44] <Etienne> same time, same place
25.01.2018 [23:19:48] <pnunn> Thank you everyone. Welcome again to the new members and thank you personally for responding to my email. 
25.01.2018 [23:19:59] <GuKKDevel> questions from the floor
25.01.2018 [23:20:30] <pnunn> I look forward to working with you all. I think we did that GuKKDevel and got none.
25.01.2018 [23:21:19] <pnunn> Silence is golden. As there is no further business, I declare the meeting closed.
25.01.2018 [23:21:27] <PeterY> Bye
25.01.2018 [23:21:32] <GuKKDevel> bye
25.01.2018 [23:21:34] <Etienne> @amos_: Can you fill in the form A9, sign it and send it to Fair Trading one of the next days with CC to me?
25.01.2018 [23:21:39] <Etienne> bye
25.01.2018 [23:21:40] <Peter> @Etienne Email?
25.01.2018 [23:21:54] <Etienne> eruedin@c.o
25.01.2018 [23:22:29] <pnunn> Bye.
25.01.2018 [23:22:38] <Etienne> I will ask for cacert-emails for Peter and Amos and access to the voting system at ... Gero.
25.01.2018 [23:23:31] <amos_> bye
25.01.2018 [23:24:35] <Peter> Bye