21:01:29
[NickServ]
Welcome to CAcert, Etienne! Here on CAcert, we provide services to enable the registration of nicknames and channels! For details, type /msg NickServ help and /msg ChanServ help. 
21:01:29
→ Etienne est entré 
21:02:01
→ KimNilsson est entré 
21:02:05
KimNilsson
Present. 
21:02:25
Etienne
Good evening Kim 
21:02:46
Hello Sascha and Michael 
21:02:53
Hello Brian and Dirk 
21:04:45
bdmc
I guess that I will wait a few minutes to start, since Dirk said that he was still on the road ( he isn't necessary to start ), and Kim and Etienne are the only other two that I am sure are here. 
21:06:35
KimNilsson
mcr: recently typed in the Telegram 
21:06:52
dirk will not arrive for another 20+ minutes. 
21:07:29
Etienne
I apologise for the delay. My wife is currently in her home country and called a quarter of an hour before the meeting started. It was a bit tight from the telephone to the desk. 
21:08:15
bdmc
No problem, Etienne.  You are here earlier than most. 
21:08:50
KimNilsson
Minutes here, https://nextcloud.cacert.org/apps/files/?dir=/CAcert%20board/CAcert%20-%20Committee%20meetings&openf... 
21:08:57
Etienne
Yesterday, I discovered our goals for 2021/22: 8 goals. no one though, we will achieve them. 
21:09:48
One became obsolete thanks to our work, two are on the way and one is ready to start. Not bad. And there are still months until AGM 2022! 
21:10:49
bdmc
Technically, we are in next year already!   B-) 
21:11:01
Thank you, Kim. 
21:11:42
I have a deadline of less than two hours, but I don't really want to start with only three. 
21:12:40
KimNilsson
sat: & mcr - you almost here? 
21:16:30
Etienne
bdmc: as Kim did already 1.2, we could start with 1.1, 1.3, 1.4 and 2.1 and 2.2 and look then if we are more? 
21:18:45
bdmc
Etienne: Agreed 
21:18:56
Let us set the start time as xx:18. 
21:19:06
Etienne
Agenda: https://wiki.cacert.org/Brain/CAcertInc/Committee/MeetingAgendasAndMinutes/2022-08-04 
21:19:08
bdmc
I hereby call this meeting to order. 
21:19:48
→ FD est entré 
21:19:57
bdmc
Etienne: Is there anything in the mailing lists that we want to add to our meeting? 
21:20:03
( Welcome Frederic ) 
21:20:49
Nothing heard. 
21:20:51
Etienne
I did not see anything in the mailing lists (only what I sent) 
21:20:59
bdmc
Thank you 
21:21:25
FD
Good evening all! I've just returned home (Metro service interruption at Gare de Lyon) 
21:21:26
bdmc
Would someone like to make the motion to accept last month's minutes? 
21:21:33
Etienne
https://wiki.cacert.org/Brain/CAcertInc/Committee/MeetingAgendasAndMinutes/2022-07-07#Minutes 
21:21:46
I move to accept the minutes of the committee meeting of 7th of July 2022. 
21:21:56
bdmc
Thank you -- Secon? 
21:22:00
( second ) 
21:22:03
Etienne
aye 
21:22:17
bdmc
Do I have a seconder? 
21:23:18
KimNilsson
Seconded 
21:23:47
Aye 
21:23:48
bdmc
Thank you.  All in favour? 
21:24:00
I am abstaining, because I was not present. 
21:24:34
Continuing. 
21:24:36
FD
The same for me 
21:25:16
bdmc
Item 2.1.1 -- I gather that we are still waiting on results, here, correct? 
21:26:35
bdmc
Item 2.2.2 and 3.  I saw the correspondence between Etienne and Mario in e-mail ( in German ), so I gather that we have no news here. 
21:27:11
Item 2.3 -- Michael is not currently here -- Etienne, do you have any news? 
21:27:24
Etienne
Mario asked me to ping him until he does it. 
21:28:37
Etienne
I hav to resign a contract with the bank in paper. The paper is in the snail mail to me. Then we get the Euro account (do to new national regulations of the authorithies, just normal buraucracy) 
21:28:53
bdmc
Thank you. 
21:28:57
FD
2.3.1 -> As far as the NextERP roll-out is concerned, which I have committed to do, I will do it. 
21:30:00
Etienne
Thank you, Frédéric. 
21:30:15
bdmc
Item 2.4 -- Jan just did some major restructuring of the code, so I have had to go back and make my part of the project conform.  I am still working to Dirk's desired deadline. 
21:30:33
Etienne
Should I put it on the agenda from Sept/Okt/Nov next time, FD? 
21:32:25
FD
Rather on the October agenda, please. 
21:32:35
Etienne
Great, what you (Jan and Brian) do! 
21:32:45
mcr
I'm here! 
21:33:01
KimNilsson
Etienne: & FD - like I mentioned in the email - yes, please, push it, so we don't have to alk about it again, until it's actually done. Or we miss talking about it. :-) 
21:33:10
Hi Michael 
21:33:18
Etienne
Hello Michael 
21:35:09
bdmc
Greetings Michael.  We just passed Item 2.3, and Etienne reported that he was waiting on a paper document from the bank. 
21:35:28
mcr
I have the bank statements from Westpac for 2021/2022 now so I will update the spreadsheet.  We will have to move money soon, so I guess given the continuing lack of access to the Swiss account, I will be forced to do that via proxy through Etienne. I sure hope that we get the Euro account open by the time we have to start spending money. 
21:36:23
bdmc
mcr: You say that we must move money soon.  Is that just so that we are able to spend it, or for some other reason? 
21:36:47
Etienne
bdmc, do you trust PP? 
21:38:53
bdmc
There are a lot of stories of failures there, as well as our own experience.  Michael was talking about Westpac, I thought. 
21:38:58
mcr
bdmc, I don't really trust PP to not lose our money.  They aren't a bank, don't have deposit insurance. 
21:39:21
I do trust them to transfer the money from Westpac -> Swiss bank. 
21:39:39
bdmc
OK.  Just clarifying. 
21:40:16
mcr
I'd like it all transfered to an Euro account at Swiss bank, whatever they are called... GKB. 
21:40:47
bdmc
And close the Westpac accounts? 
21:40:47
egal
salue 
21:41:00
mcr
closing the Westpac accounts is probably impossible :-) 
21:41:09
getting people to stop sending money there is enough. 
21:41:18
KimNilsson
PP = PayPal? (I only have personal experience that they have really high fees for sending and receiving money. Guess that's why Elon could sell it for so much back in the day.) 
21:41:19
mcr
it's maybe 100EU/year at most now. 
21:41:22
KimNilsson
Evening, Dirk 
21:41:24
bdmc
OK, so mostly you are talking about PayPal. 
21:42:03
mcr
PP's fees aren't really that high compared to many other banks, it's just a) more transparent to receivers, so they are more surprised, b) other banks often bury the fees in the FX fees. 
21:42:13
KimNilsson
gotcha 
21:44:21
bdmc
Done? 
21:45:26
bdmc
Item 2.5 -- Michael, you might know something about this. 
21:46:40
mcr
2.5... let me read. 
21:47:13
Oh. Yes.  So I think we just remove the inventory from the document, and sign it. 
21:47:26
I'd even like to move that today/now. 
21:47:44
bdmc
Certainly.  Make the motion. 
21:47:45
mcr
I thought the inventory would be trivial to fill in, but if it's not, then let's not do that. 
21:48:04
bdmc
If you need to make a motion. 
21:48:06
mcr
I move that we remove the inventory from the document circulated on nextcloud, and sign it on behalf of CACERT. 
21:48:10
egal
inventory for 2.5 means? 
21:48:22
mcr
The list of stuff that's in the cabinet. 
21:48:47
bdmc
I second that motion. 
21:48:55
Any discussion? 
21:49:19
mcr
can egal tell us the cabinet designation/number? 
21:49:20
Etienne
This is not clear as motion. 
21:49:35
mcr
Okay. 
21:49:52
egal
ah ... will try to compile the list in the next days ... and verify it during the next visit planned later the month or september 
21:50:15
mcr
I move that we sign the document at: https://nextcloud.cacert.org/s/EgdrpwwxLrtwgE3 with the cabinet number filled in. 
21:50:16
Etienne
Something like "I move that the transfer of the contract at BIT from secureU to CAcert be signed by CAcert Inc." would be clearer to me. 
21:50:25
bdmc
Hmmm.  Since we are removing this information from the contract, do we need to discuss details now? 
21:50:28
mcr
I move that the transfer of the contract at BIT from secureU to CAcert be signed by CAcert Inc. 
21:50:53
Etienne
second and aye 
21:51:06
bdmc
Any other discussion? 
21:51:33
KimNilsson
(sidetracking ... mcr - Ignore this until you feel it's interesting enough to respond to.) I just feel that PP asking for % of the transferred amount is gouging. I sent €1200 to pay for our vacation house, and the fee was only € 0.15. PP subtracts 3.5% whenever I get paid. That's expensive. 
21:51:37
egal
there is some older hardware on my site (alix board and 10/100 gb-switches) ... 
21:52:08
mcr
half-cabinet (BIT-2B.2.1-B) 
21:52:24
I found it in the last invoice. 
21:52:56
egal, I don't care about anything that's not *in* the cabinet.  I just want SecureU to be sure that everything that's in the cabinet is getting transfered :-) 
21:52:57
egal
... and sun4/broken signer etc. ... what to do with this hardware? keep it at my site on behalv of CAcert Inc.? 
21:52:59
mcr
no backsies :-) 
21:53:27
if you want to rid your place of junk, then ... let's put that on the list. 
21:53:33
maybe someone else wants it for parts. 
21:53:44
Etienne
Spare parts? 
21:53:50
egal
it's hardware, which was in the cabinet when secure-u got it ... and then removed/replaced by newer hardware ... 
21:53:53
Etienne
CAcert museum? 
21:54:12
bdmc
From what I hear, they are antiques. 
21:54:28
All in favour of Michael's motion? 
21:54:31
Aye 
21:54:34
Etienne
Sell them as antiques. Money is allways welcome. 
21:54:38
KimNilsson
Aye 
21:55:11
egal
so let's keep it for now at my site ... and think about it later ... 
21:56:09
bdmc
I'm looking for a couple more votes. 
21:57:03
OK.  Moving on.  Item 2.6 -- Background Checks.  Nothing to report? 
21:57:04
Etienne
FD? sat? 
21:57:22
bdmc
I don't think that sat is here. 
21:57:41
Etienne
2.6.: Ted is activly searching dates for new checks. egal gives he a hand. 
21:57:46
FD
I vote yes to Michael's motion. 
21:57:48
KimNilsson
I have been contacted about BGC, and responded that I'm open all timeslots mentioned.. 
21:58:27
mcr
great. 
21:58:35
will we sign with SMIME or PGP :-) 
21:59:14
bdmc
Oh, SMIME of course!   That's who we are, isn't it? 
21:59:45
That's a technical detail, unless you want more members of the Board to sign as well. 
22:00:24
mcr
it was a rhetorical question actually.  I think we are directing the secretary to sign the document, and send a detached signature to SecureU. 
22:00:31
egal
reagarding background checks i got an email from ted ... need to answer it as soon as there is some time this month ... 
22:01:22
bdmc
Next, Item 2.7 -- Dirk ( and others? ) is advertising FrosCon. 
22:01:46
Etienne
PR will contact assurers from around within next days. 
22:02:11
egal
do we have a text to be sent from critical system? 
22:02:19
bdmc
Etienne: Is this regarding 2.7? 
22:02:29
Etienne
bdmc: yes! 
22:02:39
egal
(like we did for ATEs ages ago?) 
22:02:43
bdmc
Sorry.  Didn't understand. 
22:02:49
Etienne
I will check with Alex for the text. 
22:03:18
bdmc: a mailing to local assurers ca. 30 miles / 50 km around froscon. 
22:03:29
egal
please add ted in CC ... so he could give the OK from arbitration POV 
22:04:01
bdmc
Etienne: Understood 
22:06:03
egal
50 km is too short ... if we use 85 km, ruhrgebiet is in the range ... 
22:07:46
KimNilsson
bdmc: egal: jan ... 2.8 New CSR - any movement? (if not, take it off the agenda until someone is ready to act on it, or until there is some movement?) 
22:08:22
egal
for CSR you should ask ted, not me ... 
22:08:55
Etienne
bdmc: remove or bring it again in 4, 6, 8 month? 
22:09:23
KimNilsson
We don't have to decie how long ti should be off. 
22:09:43
Etienne
OK, i put in the "to not forget" list 
22:10:03
bdmc
Etienne:  What I was thinking, too.  Thanks 
22:10:04
KimNilsson
That's a perfect thing someone can just mentiuon during a Wednesday meeting - "hey, it's been a long time and nothing on CSR... should we bring it up on the next meeting?" 
22:10:15
That works. 
22:11:13
bdmc
As far as Item 2.9 -- I haven't heard anything from Eva since June, I think.  Dirk? 
22:11:25
Etienne
"At the moment I'm busy with something else, but I hope to get back to 
22:11:25
this over the summer. Please ping me to remind me of this project if I 
22:11:25
come not back to it by myself. " (11. June 2022) 
22:11:41
bdmc
I know that she has been busy with giving presentations at conferences. 
22:11:47
Etienne
(mail from Eva @bdmc) 
22:11:55
egal
eva has to hold a talk on froscon in 2 1/2 weeks ... so she's quite busy with it ... 
22:12:13
(and ... she was on holiday = MCH and haxogreen) during the last 2 weeks ...) 
22:12:31
KimNilsson
That's great, then perhaps Eva will be able to say hi during September meeting, or email a Hello. 
22:12:33
bdmc
Etienne: Let's skip a month on this one.  Bring it back in October. 
22:12:33
Etienne
egal, we just to try to find out when we should recontact Eva: August, Sept, Okt, .. 
22:12:42
Okt. OK 
22:12:48
KimNilsson
Octobeer is fine too. Good. 
22:13:11
egal
i'm in contact to eva nearly every day (business) ... 
22:13:16
KimNilsson
Remind her now, like she asked to be. Then wait for her. 
22:13:20
bdmc
KimNilsson: Did you really mean that spelling? 
22:13:33
B-) 
22:13:33
egal
as soon as froscon is done i'll give her a reminder ... ;-) 
22:13:42
bdmc
egal: Thank you 
22:14:05
And, finally, Item 2.10  -- Our AGM 
22:14:05
KimNilsson
haha, that would fit just right that month, if I remember correctly :-) 
22:14:35
bdmc
There has been talk about dates, and I think that the consensus is the 12th. 
22:14:57
Will we go with the "traditional" time, 20:00 UTC? 
22:15:01
KimNilsson
I'm all for the 12th, and haven't we all said 12th? Second question was about time. Someone had an ask about time. 
22:15:53
Etienne
20:00 UTC would be Sat 20:00 GMT / 20:00 UTC / Sat 21:00 CET (Berlin/Zurich) / Sat 15:00 EDT (New York) / Sun 07:00 AEDT (Sydney) 
22:16:28
mcr
I asked about time, because on the Nov. 12th, I will be at IETF115, just finishing, and should decide if I am travelling that day or not. 
22:16:45
(That will be in London) 
22:17:03
bdmc
mcr: Would you be comfortable on delaying your travel until Sunday or Monday? 
22:17:33
( comfortable with ) 
22:17:34
KimNilsson
I'm ok with it starting earlier. I've learned that AGMs tend to take time, and starting later will make the late decisions poor. 
22:17:36
mcr
Yes, so that's the point.  I either travel Friday/Saturday morning, or I travel Sunday.  I can work around it, I just need to know now :-) 
22:17:42
Etienne
Sat with CAcert, Sun at Westminster Abbey and Mon with the Queen? 
22:18:00
mcr
no, the Queen usually meets with me at the Abbey. 
22:18:07
Etienne
:-) 
22:18:15
mcr
we *do* share the same birthday. 
22:18:20
(not birth year) 
22:18:29
bdmc
mcr: Wow, me too! 
22:18:34
KimNilsson
Most regent. 
22:18:53
bdmc
KimNilsson: The problem with that suggestion is the Australian time. 
22:18:55
mcr
bdmc, perhaps we can persuade the rest of the board to change their birthday for April. 
22:19:34
I'm fine with 2000UTC. 
22:19:40
KimNilsson
Etienne: Riiiight. They are ahead, making it early Sunday morning there. 
22:19:49
mcr
I'd like to go out klubbing that night, but that's not until close to midnight :-) 
22:20:17
Etienne
When I was in the UK, they closed all Pubs at 23:00 
22:20:29
KimNilsson
I was always fine with 20:00 UTC. 
22:20:50
Yes, they do. Pubs close at 23:00. Only night clubs allowed to be open later. 
22:21:32
bdmc
"members only" clubs, right?  ( membership at the door, just 10 pounds ) 
22:22:00
Etienne
as CAcert Inc: members only for 10.-- 
22:22:22
bdmc
OK.  We seem to be in agreement. 
22:22:27
Etienne
I move to fix Saturday, 12.Nov.2022, 20:00 UTC for the Annual General Meeting. 
22:22:42
FD
I second. 
22:22:47
Etienne
aye 
22:22:51
FD
yes 
22:22:56
bdmc
OK, I was starting to write that motion, but...  Aye 
22:23:15
mcr
Aye! 
22:23:26
bdmc
Good enough. 
22:23:38
KimNilsson
Dunno, never went. Ended the nights with other exchange students at one of their houses instead. There was no time limit there. :-) Spring of 1998. University of Hull, north east England. 
22:23:39
Etienne
(bdmc: most motions are ready for copy paste or copy adapt paste in the agenda) 
22:23:44
KimNilsson
Aye 
22:23:59
bdmc
Question Time:  Anybody have anything that they want to know? 
22:24:05
FD
Do we keep the cacert domains at our historical registrar, or do we port them to another, as Dirk proposed last year at this time? 
22:25:28
Etienne
are there reasons against that idea? 
22:26:02
FD
Reasons against which of the two options? 
22:26:43
mcr
I assume new registrar supports DNSSEC.  Do they also support CDS? 
22:26:44
Etienne
Reasons against changing? Dirk gaave some reasons to change. If I remember well. 
22:27:04
KimNilsson
Moving to a decent not unnecessarily expensive registrar which can be easily paid from the Swiss account - sounds like good idea. 
22:27:27
egal
gkg is using dnssec, too ... 
22:27:34
FD
I ask the question, simply because I remember talking about it a few months ago with Dirk and Brian, both of whom recommended waiting until the summer to make the decision. Here we go 
22:28:05
Etienne
Decision = board? Execution = ?? 
22:28:45
KimNilsson
I'm all for it. Also no need to decide which it is. Nor which requirements. Board says do it. Technical /  critical Team does it, or whoever is capable. 
22:29:10
bdmc
OK, so what are the Pros and Cons? 
22:30:08
KimNilsson
Moving means there could be a brief interference in services. But with the quite severe disturbances we've had during these last few months, it doesn't feel relevant. 
22:31:38
FD
I am not sure that it is now, at the end of the meeting, that we should debate the arguments pro and con. That's why I proposed to deal with the issue a little earlier. Today, perhaps we should just give ourselves a quick answer: do we want to think about it, or do we leave it as it is? 
22:32:01
egal
or talk next wednesday about it? 
22:32:21
bdmc
FD: O 
22:32:48
FD: I'm sorry.  I didn't see anything.  I guess that if it wasn't in the Agenda, I didn't see it. 
22:33:01
Etienne
yes, please, think about it. This summer. so, there is enough time to do it, if we want. 
22:33:10
KimNilsson
I've put it in as Question time 3.1 :-) 
22:33:12
FD
I'm happy to do so. Would you remind us Dirk what the deadline is in September? 
22:33:42
egal
need to check ... (in the next days) 
22:33:55
bdmc
KimNilsson: I think that instead of 3.1, it should be a formal item in the Agenda. 
22:34:10
( under Business ) 
22:34:27
KimNilsson
Then that'll have to be next time. 
22:34:35
bdmc
Agreed 
22:34:53
FD
@Brian: this was not on the agenda, it was a simple question raised when you called for points outside the agenda. 
22:34:59
KimNilsson
Worded so in 3.1 now. :-) 
22:35:24
2.10.2... AGM reports... need any more words on that? 
22:35:57
It says Etienne that secretary is on that, so I assume you are. 
22:36:02
Etienne
No, just info and task, if you are in a team. 
22:36:17
bdmc
KimNilsson: It says that the Secretary needs to nag us, so that should be sufficient. 
22:36:35
OK.  Anything more, or shall we re-convene in September.   Really, the 1st? 
22:36:36
Etienne
3.2. Other question: Was the starting time 19 UTC only for this month (as we did 20 UTC in the other years and 18 UTC earlier this year) or for ever? 
22:37:16
bdmc
Etienne: Good point.  Anybody? 
22:37:29
KimNilsson
We said to alternate 
22:37:42
Then we actually did more than one 18:00 UTC in a row 
22:38:45
KimNilsson
The logical combo was to have 18:00 even months, and 19:00 odd months. 
22:39:01
bdmc
Oh, no!  We can't have logic! 
22:39:07
KimNilsson
and since we messed up one month that is now skewed. 
22:39:24
bdmc
And where does 20 come in to it? 
22:39:31
FD
From my point of view, the sooner the better. I dread the thought of resuming those late night committee meetings that easily end for us Europeans after midnight, in between work days. 
22:39:39
bdmc
Or is that permanently lost? 
22:39:52
Etienne
From November UTC becomes 1 hour earlier in Europe. 
22:39:57
KimNilsson
Nobody wants 20:00 UTC for monthly meetings, only for AGM, as there are no Aussies on the board nowadays. 
22:40:35
bdmc
OK.  I always try to keep these meetings to two hours or less.  I need to leave soon, anyway. 
22:40:36
egal
1930 was possible for me today ... 18 utc would have been too early ... 
22:40:38
Etienne
For me it makes a difference if it is Summer or Winter (do to daylightsavingtime) 
22:41:24
KimNilsson
EU has said to remove DST, but not decided on an actual time to do so. The irony. 
22:41:54
bdmc
There are thoughts here about setting time permanently to the DST version. 
22:41:54
egal
21:00 local time is best for me ... ;-) 
22:42:25
FD
The European Union had decided, and set 2021 as the last year in which a shift would occur. 
22:42:42
bdmc
OK.  So we have 18, 19 and 20 for the September meeting.  Votes? 
22:42:45
Etienne
For me in Summer 18 and 19 works fine, in Winter 19 is better (until they removed DST) 
22:43:33
egal
... and then they were not able to agree to permanent summer or winter time ... 
22:43:35
FD
Let's Let's try 18:00 UTC for the September meeting, when we are still in "summer hours"? 
22:43:50
KimNilsson
1800 UTC is my vote 
22:44:03
FD
18:00 UTC is my vote, too. 
22:44:24
Etienne
egal: do not worry, you join us just after the Preliminaries ... 
22:44:30
KimNilsson
egal: yeah, that too, but I think the science is on Winter time, which was the time before DST became a thing. 
22:45:37
bdmc
OK, just before I go, I will see you all on the 1st of September, at 18 UTC. 
22:46:03
mcr: You still here?  18 work for you? 
22:46:04
KimNilsson
Brilliant. 
22:46:12
FD
Merci Brian ! 
22:46:30
Etienne
Thank you for chairing, bdmc; thank you for joining, KimNilsson, , FD, mcr, egal. 
22:46:41
egal
;-) 
22:46:47
bdmc
Good night all! 
22:47:14
Etienne
Nice after noon, bdmc and mcr, good night... 
22:47:36
← bdmc a quitté (Quit: leaving) 
22:47:42
KimNilsson
Thank you and good night everyone. 
22:47:44
FD
Thank you Etienne, have a good evening Dirk. 
22:47:56
← FD est parti du salon  
22:59:44
← KimNilsson est parti du salon  

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