1 → Etienne has joined 
   2 21:57:40
   3 pnunn
   4 Morning all 
   5 21:58:04
   6 Etienne
   7 Good morning pnunn 
   8 21:58:30
   9 → bdmc has joined 
  10 21:58:44
  11 Etienne
  12 Hello bdmc, pnunn said jusst Good Morning 
  13 21:58:44
  14 bdmc
  15 'Morning, all. 
  16 21:59:08
  17 Greetings Peter.  Welcome to dawn ( or is that pre-dawn? ) 
  18 21:59:24
  19 Hi Etienne. 
  20 21:59:28
  21 pnunn
  22 Its not too bad now, an hour later than previously. 
  23 21:59:41
  24 Etienne
  25 Hello bdmc 
  26 22:00:01
  27 bdmc
  28 Ah, you've had your time change.  In North America it is the end of this month, if I remember correctly. 
  29 22:00:18
  30 pnunn
  31 Yes, still getting used to it though. 
  32 22:00:24
  33 bdmc
  34 Shall we get rolling? 
  35 22:00:41
  36 pnunn
  37 Lets 
  38 22:01:13
  39 bdmc
  40 Etienne,  I know that nobody else is here yet, but would you please publish the Agenda URL? 
  41 22:01:23
  42 I hereby call this meeting to order. 
  43 22:01:26
  44 Etienne
  45 https://wiki.cacert.org/Brain/CAcertInc/Committee/MeetingAgendasAndMinutes/2019-10-17 
  46 22:02:03
  47 bdmc
  48 As we have been doing recently, we are jumbling the Agenda order, trying to get to the priority items earlier in the meeting, so that they get addressed. 
  49 22:02:38
  50 I will note that I need to leave in about an hour, so Etienne will continue afterwards. 
  51 22:02:43
  52 → FD has joined 
  53 22:02:53
  54 bdmc
  55 'Morning Frederic. 
  56 22:03:44
  57 That's the FD version of Frederic. 
  58 22:04:15
  59 FD
  60 Good afternoon Brian, bonsoir Etienne, hello everybody! 
  61 22:05:00
  62 bdmc
  63 According to my reading, we don't have Minutes for the 5th of September, but we do have those for the 26th. 
  64 22:05:15
  65 Can I hear a motion to accept the Minutes of the 26th? 
  66 22:06:09
  67 pnunn
  68 So moved 
  69 22:06:09
  70 bdmc
  71 Hold it! 
  72 22:06:29
  73 Etienne
  74 I motion to accept the minutes from 10th of october 2019 
  75 22:06:33
  76 bdmc
  77 I am looking at a link for the 26th, but it goes to minutes for October 10th. 
  78 22:06:50
  79 FD
  80 https://wiki.cacert.org/Brain/CAcertInc/Committee/MeetingAgendasAndMinutes/2019-09-26 
  81 22:07:10
  82 Etienne
  83 Minutes from 26-09 allready voted. 
  84 22:07:21
  85 https://motion.cacert.org/motions/m20191010.3 
  86 22:07:21
  87 bdmc
  88 Etienne: Please tell us which Minutes are outstanding and which we need to discuss? 
  89 22:07:34
  90 Etienne
  91 minutes from 10th of october 2019 
  92 22:07:53
  93 bdmc
  94 Which are shown as the 26th of September in our Agenda? 
  95 22:08:00
  96 Etienne
  97 yes 
  98 22:08:19
  99 sorry for missadaption of the old agenda 
 100 22:08:30
 101 bdmc
 102 Would you please correct that before next meeting? 
 103 22:08:38
 104 Etienne
 105 the link is OK: 26 links to 10 
 106 22:09:04
 107 bdmc
 108 Yes, but the link in the Agenda must match the content. 
 109 22:09:38
 110 Etienne
 111 allready done in the wiki 
 112 22:09:49
 113 bdmc
 114 OK.  We have a motion on the floor to accept the Board Meeting Minutes for October 10th. 
 115 22:09:52
 116 I second. 
 117 22:09:59
 118 All in favour? 
 119 22:10:04
 120 FD
 121 I was absent on the 10th of October, unfortunately, I have to abstain. 
 122 22:10:09
 123 Etienne
 124 aye 
 125 22:10:11
 126 pnunn
 127 abs 
 128 22:10:15
 129 bdmc
 130 aye 
 131 22:10:32
 132 No nayes, so, technically, it passes. 
 133 22:10:40
 134 FD
 135 Good. 
 136 22:10:55
 137 bdmc
 138 Next, any messages in either of the mailing lists that we need to discuss? 
 139 22:11:10
 140 I know that there are still some Volunteer messages that need action. 
 141 22:12:43
 142 bdmc
 143 Lorenzo and Pascal, in particular. 
 144 22:12:53
 145 ( Those are the ones that I see first. ) 
 146 22:13:46
 147 Etienne
 148 Lorenzo is from Ticino, Switzerland, I could answer him until the end of this week. 
 149 22:13:47
 150 bdmc
 151 OK.  Moving on.  Shall we start with the Critical Team?  I haven't heard anything recently on this subject. 
 152 22:14:13
 153 Etienne. Thank you. 
 154 22:14:19
 155 Etienne
 156 We should assure, that the hand over starts now. 
 157 22:14:40
 158 In two hurs we have the motions from last week passed. 
 159 22:15:09
 160 https://motion.cacert.org/motions/m20191010.4 
 161 22:15:14
 162 bdmc
 163 I know that egal isn't here.  He volunteered to manage the Critical Team transition, as I remember. 
 164 22:15:18
 165 Etienne
 166 https://motion.cacert.org/motions/m20191010.5 
 167 22:17:00
 168 bdmc
 169 I don't think that there is anything more that we can do on this subject without a contribution from egal. 
 170 22:17:09
 171 Etienne
 172 Who gets in contact with M....., egal, W...? 
 173 22:18:16
 174 Etienne
 175 Furthermore, we have to present the names from https://motion.cacert.org/motions/m20191010.1 to W... 
 176 22:18:21
 177 bdmc
 178 I can write a note to egal, asking for his plan.  As far as W..., I can write something, saying that we have done everything that we can, and that it is up to the three of them to continue. 
 179 22:19:13
 180 Etienne
 181 Good, have a look to the 3 motions first and add the mail addresses, that W... or egal can get in touch with each other. 
 182 22:19:26
 183 bdmc
 184 As far as I remember, W... was already given that list. 
 185 22:20:01
 186 Etienne
 187 Even then, it helps, if he has all together. 
 188 22:20:14
 189 bdmc
 190 ( Maybe a month ago, but certainly at the beginning of this month. ) 
 191 22:20:43
 192 As far as I remember, I included you and FD on that message. 
 193 22:21:50
 194 Etienne
 195 Have you any answers of local candidates (I had only a copy from Gereon) 
 196 22:22:27
 197 bdmc
 198 That was the only positive answer that I received.  There was one negative answer, and nothing else. 
 199 22:22:43
 200 Etienne
 201 Who's was negative? 
 202 22:23:01
 203 bdmc
 204 M....., ( the other one ) I think. 
 205 22:23:16
 206 I sent it to you. 
 207 22:23:37
 208 → LambertHofstra has joined 
 209 22:23:45
 210 bdmc
 211 Greetings Lambert. 
 212 22:23:56
 213 → dops has joined 
 214 22:24:03
 215 bdmc
 216 Welcome dops 
 217 22:24:08
 218 FD
 219 Hi Gero ! 
 220 22:24:18
 221 Good evening Lambert! 
 222 22:24:19
 223 dops
 224 Hi all 
 225 22:24:39
 226 bdmc
 227 We have three continents represented. 
 228 22:25:02
 229 Continuing.  I guess that my first job is to contact egal, and ask what his plan is. 
 230 22:25:15
 231 ( It is out of our hands, now. ) 
 232 22:25:39
 233 Etienne
 234 Tell him, what his tasks are: get in contact with M..... and W... and start hand over. 
 235 22:26:09
 236 (it's not his plan, but ours (he included)) 
 237 22:26:50
 238 bdmc
 239 I thought that he was talking about some plan last week, how he intended to proceed.  I will write him and see what I can find out. 
 240 22:28:19
 241 bdmc
 242 ( Completely off topic, but not really.  I think that we need some kind of reminder system, other than Etienne, to record tasks and the people to whom they are assigned.  -- I know, we have the Action Items, if we actually maintain them, but they don't send us nag messages. ) 
 243 22:28:22
 244 FD
 245 In case you would like to include B... in the Critical Team too, it might be good to invite him as well for the hand-over. Always better to learn from the primary source (here: W...), than to get informed by the new admin (here: M.....) 
 246 22:28:58
 247 Etienne
 248 Exactly FD, that is https://motion.cacert.org/motions/m20191010.1 
 249 22:29:27
 250 bdmc
 251 FD: That was the problem.  Last week, egal said that he was going to take over the Critical Team ( or words to that effect ) and had a plan for the hand-over and everything.   That is what I need to talk to him about. 
 252 22:29:28
 253 Etienne
 254 As much people as possible have to learn from the primary source. 
 255 22:29:41
 256 bdmc
 257 FD: Who is B...? 
 258 22:29:54
 259 FD
 260 https://lists.cacert.org/wws/arc/cacert-board-private/2019-09/msg00006.html 
 261 22:30:21
 262 @Etienne: very good. 
 263 22:30:22
 264 Etienne
 265 bdmc, you proposed him to W... after reading his CV 
 266 22:31:00
 267 bdmc
 268 OK, thank you.   I can't read the link that FD sent. 
 269 22:31:38
 270 Anything more on this subject, or should we move on? 
 271 22:31:44
 272 Etienne
 273 As we have only 13 days remaining, egal will meet W... in the NL and we have to assure that as much of the others can join in real live or remotly. 
 274 22:32:37
 275 The names of the others are in the two other motions. 
 276 22:32:56
 277 LambertHofstra
 278 (hi all, cant stay online myself, just started this for the logs, will read tomorrow) 
 279 22:33:17
 280 bdmc
 281 LambertHofstra: Thank you for stopping in. 
 282 22:33:52
 283 FD
 284 @Lambert: nice to have you with us. 
 285 22:33:53
 286 bdmc
 287 I don't remember whether egal considered himself a "local" or only the Team Manager. 
 288 22:34:13
 289 Etienne
 290 local interim manager 
 291 22:34:13
 292 FD
 293 @Brian: the link directs to an archived mail sent to < cacert-board-private@lists.cacert.org> on the 5th of September, proposing B...'s application to Critical Team and explaining why. 
 294 22:34:50
 295 → Treasurer has joined 
 296 22:34:54
 297 FD
 298 I took the link from the agenda of today's meeting. 
 299 22:34:59
 300 bdmc
 301 FD: Thank you.  I remember, now that you remind me.  I don't think that he was on our "short" list, though, was he? 
 302 22:35:13
 303 Treasurer: Welcome. 
 304 22:35:34
 305 FD
 306 He was. He is located around 300km from Ede, and might be considered as "local" as well. 
 307 22:35:36
 308 Etienne
 309 bdmc: he was on the motion with the short list 
 310 22:36:00
 311 bdmc
 312 Etienne: See I have a great memory, just REALLY REALLY short! 
 313 22:36:20
 314 OK, moving on, finally. 
 315 22:36:54
 316 Etienne
 317 we have to guide the new 
 318 22:36:54
 319 volunteers to task that fits to them and look, that they get integrated in 
 320 22:36:54
 321 the existing teams in one manner or another. The main question is: how to 
 322 22:36:54
 323 integrate this new people. 
 324 22:37:19
 325 (are two topics on the agenda: general teams and arb) 
 326 22:37:26
 327 bdmc
 328 We have several different, but related, items in the agenda, labelled Finances.  Since our Treasurer is here, shall we go there, or back to Etienne's suggestion? 
 329 22:38:01
 330 Etienne
 331 Part of finances is also of integration into (finance) teams 
 332 22:38:15
 333 Treasurer
 334 yes, it is 
 335 22:38:15
 336 bdmc
 337 Understood 
 338 22:38:31
 339 Etienne
 340 let's say 15 min finances and 15 min building teams. 
 341 22:38:41
 342 (befor bdmc is leaving) 
 343 22:38:48
 344 bdmc
 345 OK.  Speed dating it is. 
 346 22:39:22
 347 FD
 348 In regards to building teams, I would suggest for that to hire first managers dedicated to that task. I mean, these people wanting to be members of the board. They could help at welcoming and dispatching new comers. At the moment, we are not a lot more than three of us to do it. 
 349 22:39:25
 350 bdmc
 351 Did we come up with an answer for our corporate donors question. 
 352 22:40:03
 353 As I remember, there were some technical and policy issues. 
 354 22:40:33
 355 Etienne
 356 People interested to support, I started to ask the to join the support list and help there first. If they do good work, we can move them to triage and then support after ABC. 
 357 22:40:49
 358 bdmc
 359 I thought that we were doing Finances first? 
 360 22:40:51
 361 FD
 362 OK. 
 363 22:40:56
 364 Etienne
 365 OK 
 366 22:41:15
 367 bdmc
 368 I can do something else, if you want. 
 369 22:41:28
 370 Etienne
 371 Treasurer, are you ready? 
 372 22:41:42
 373 Treasurer
 374 yes 
 375 22:41:51
 376 bdmc
 377 Let's look at item 3, first. 
 378 22:42:13
 379 Etienne
 380 Details of donations. 
 381 22:42:15
 382 bdmc
 383 Treasurer: Do you have a "grand" total of our donations after the 360k? 
 384 22:42:55
 385 Treasurer
 386 I am not able to currently segment donations and fees. I have around 250 receipts late 
 387 22:43:24
 388 What I can say is our bank account amount, regardless of how it comes 
 389 22:43:24
 390 bdmc
 391 There will be very few membership fees.  Most are donations in some form. 
 392 22:43:54
 393 FD
 394 May you provide a breakdown between all the currencies which we received donations or fees in? 
 395 22:43:59
 396 bdmc
 397 I presume that this is the account "today," after bills have been paid? 
 398 22:44:24
 399 Treasurer
 400 Paypal €8,615.54 EUR* (estimated EUR value) 
 401 22:44:26
 402 €5,975.29 EUR 
 403 22:44:27
 404 $3,660.33 AUD €2,153.42 in EUR) 
 405 22:44:27
 406 $556.42 USD (€486.83 in EUR) 
 407 22:44:57
 408 bdmc
 409 Are there any outstanding bills? 
 410 22:45:02
 411 Etienne
 412 yes 
 413 22:45:19
 414 Treasurer
 415 No, from my side 
 416 22:45:24
 417 Etienne
 418 but also about 6000€ at secure-U for CAcert 
 419 22:46:00
 420 Finances, topic 5 is an invoice to pay 1107.65 EUR 
 421 22:46:05
 422 Treasurer
 423 Right from Secure-U. This is a new information from Etienne that comes from Secure-U 
 424 22:46:33
 425 FD
 426 Does Frederic has an overview on precise amount received by Secure-U, or is the information available from egal? 
 427 22:46:56
 428 bdmc
 429 I would hope that the Treasurer has this information. 
 430 22:47:00
 431 Etienne
 432 sorry, not 6000, but >5000. 
 433 22:47:36
 434 Treasurer and Secretary nows only "a little bit more than 5000" 
 435 22:48:01
 436 Secure-U is short in workers and did not made the addition until now. 
 437 22:48:03
 438 Treasurer
 439 No, I got this information from Etienne, not from Secure-U who didn't answer to my questions about our balance in their account 
 440 22:48:40
 441 bdmc
 442 OK.  Is this money available for future Secure-U bills, or do we take it back, or? 
 443 22:49:13
 444 Etienne
 445 This money is to lower future bills. Details can be negociated with them. 
 446 22:49:18
 447 Treasurer
 448 I suggest that it stays to Secure-U, since we are now funded in Paypal and Westpac 
 449 22:49:34
 450 bdmc
 451 All right.  That sounds like a reasonable plan. 
 452 22:49:44
 453 Next, I want to talk about Item 2. 
 454 22:49:50
 455 Treasurer
 456 But, nonethess, we are at risk if Secure-U fails 
 457 22:50:17
 458 Recurring financial incoming? 
 459 22:50:23
 460 bdmc
 461 We are at risk if Secure-U fails, since they are the ones that we pay for hosting. 
 462 22:50:38
 463 Etienne
 464 The hire for us the racks. 
 465 22:50:48
 466 bdmc
 467 Treasurer: Yes, do you know what our monthly income is? 
 468 22:51:04
 469 Etienne
 470 Secure-U are egal and Ted and a 3rd one. Not so much risk. 
 471 22:51:43
 472 Treasurer
 473 got it 
 474 22:52:24
 475 FD
 476 Coming to point 2, may you give us a picture about recurring (automatic) payments, Frederic? 
 477 22:52:27
 478 Treasurer
 479 @bdmc no exactly, for the same reasons I have receipts late, and I write incomes when I send the receipt. I guess around 200-300 Eur, according to my memory. 
 480 22:52:37
 481 FD
 482 How much of them have been registered? 
 483 22:52:55
 484 bdmc
 485 Thank you.  Would you please prepare a summary of that information for next meeting? 
 486 22:53:17
 487 Briefly.  Item 4 -- I presume that that invoice has been paid? 
 488 22:53:18
 489 Treasurer
 490 I will 
 491 22:53:23
 492 FD
 493 Which amount are we sure to receive from donators in the coming years? 
 494 22:53:55
 495 Etienne
 496 Etienne will be absent for 3-4 min. 
 497 22:54:16
 498 bdmc
 499 FD: It is never sure, but there are monthly contracts with Paypal, and some annual ones, too. 
 500 22:54:33
 501 That was what I asked Frederic to prepare for next meeting. 
 502 22:54:55
 503 Item 4, and then we will move to Item 5, and I will be gone. 
 504 22:54:57
 505 Treasurer
 506 FD around 200-300 a year. Not more than 500, roughly 
 507 22:55:21
 508 It gives us an idea. This is not 100, this is not 1000 either 
 509 22:56:01
 510 FD
 511 OK guys, I did not see you will come back to point 2 at the next meeting. Good. Point 4 now, last invoice, right? 
 512 22:56:06
 513 bdmc
 514 OK.  I guess that I will pass the baton to Etienne, when he returns.  I need to go to an apppointment. 
 515 22:56:17
 516 Treasurer
 517 I paid the invoice as soon as we had enough money in Paypal 
 518 22:56:35
 519 So, no past due to date 
 520 22:56:46
 521 FD
 522 You know, there was no vote on that. 
 523 22:57:05
 524 We got this mail from egal, on the 6th of October: "But ... compared to the invoices done before by Gero or Michael now we have to pay the transaction fees, which are quite high". Why these additional transaction fees appeared? How the payement of the last bill has been triggered from Paypal? 
 525 22:58:11
 526 Treasurer
 527 Two questions. 
 528 22:59:37
 529 Treasurer
 530 1) we agreed to pay the bill, that I put on the table only for information purpose. As a treasurer, I don't need a special vote to pay such a recurring invoice 
 531 23:00:16
 532 2) what are the transaction fees you are writing about? 
 533 23:00:57
 534 Etienne
 535 Secure-U has to pay - if I remember well - between 50 and 70. 
 536 23:01:05
 537 FD
 538 egal gave us the details in his mail from the 6th 
 539 23:01:35
 540 egal wrote 177€. 
 541 23:01:51
 542 Treasurer
 543 177€? for what? 
 544 23:02:12
 545 FD
 546 For having received the money from Paypal to Paypal. 
 547 23:02:16
 548 Etienne
 549 have to pay the transation-fees, which are quite high: 
 550 23:02:16
 551  
 552 23:02:16
 553 Invoice 2017-02, 56.65 EUR 
 554 23:02:16
 555 Invoice 2018-02, 59.93 EUR 
 556 23:02:16
 557 Invoive 2019-01, 61.07 EUR 
 558 23:02:16
 559  
 560 23:02:16
 561 Total:  177.65 EUR 
 562 23:02:39
 563 Is there a way to pay paypal to paypal with less fees? 
 564 23:03:16
 565 FD
 566 Were some currency exchanges involved in the payment? 
 567 23:03:22
 568 Treasurer
 569 I don't know and have no instructions from former treasurers about that 
 570 23:04:26
 571 Treasurer
 572 @FD As far as I know, Paypal transform AUD or USD in EUR from our side, not at the expense of receiver 
 573 23:04:37
 574 And I paid in Euros 
 575 23:05:03
 576 How did the former treasurers do? 
 577 23:05:33
 578 FD
 579 Gero directed me to Paypal's exchange fees: it starts from 4% for exchanging from AUD to EUR. 
 580 23:05:59
 581 Etienne
 582 If you pay as "friend or family"? 
 583 23:06:16
 584 FD
 585 This is why we did not vote the payment of the last invoice, to find a way to complete currency exchange at better conditions. 
 586 23:06:57
 587 Treasurer
 588 Disagree. 
 589 23:08:15
 590 Treasurer
 591 Invoice was (obviously) accepted. At that time, we only had money on Westpac and we were worried about transaction fees from AUD to EUR from Westpac. Not from Paypal. 
 592 23:09:07
 593 Etienne
 594 For me, there are two things: The past we cannot change anymore and the future. 
 595 23:09:07
 596 Who can find out the best way to bpay with and without paypal? 
 597 23:09:07
 598 Do we have to motion the bill from 2018? 
 599 23:09:09
 600 Treasurer
 601 This is why I stayed Westpac still, and used Paypal as usual. 
 602 23:10:09
 603 Etienne
 604 As secure-U is not short on money, maybe we find it out until november and skip it today. 
 605 23:10:48
 606 Treasurer
 607 1) I am eager to learn how to better use Paypal from whomever knows the tricks 
 608 23:11:28
 609 2) we don't have to motion the bill. Everything is clear and payed. No debt, as far as I know. 
 610 23:12:04
 611 Etienne
 612 OK, so we do nothing tonight/today. 
 613 23:12:49
 614 Let's come back to team building (software/arbitration/finances) 
 615 23:13:06
 616 Treasurer
 617 I would like to get some help to catch the future treasurer's team 
 618 23:13:25
 619 Etienne
 620 What kind of help do you need? 
 621 23:14:13
 622 Treasurer
 623 In my records, I have seven names, not nine. And I would be happy to move to select whom we choose 
 624 23:15:44
 625 Treasurer
 626 Not very good English, sorry. I would prefer that we will be at least two of us to select or study the candidates 
 627 23:15:54
 628 FD
 629 Michael Judd and Kalle Kivimaa looked for me as the most promising applicants. 
 630 23:16:24
 631 Etienne
 632 All I can do is tell you how I do it at OrgA: cover letter, tell what to do. Answer questions. The number melts, from the first, second, third contact crystallizes who remains and is useful. 
 633 23:17:33
 634 Etienne
 635 It's not on us the choose. The AGM votes a treasurer, but we would like to form a financial team of some people. 
 636 23:17:35
 637 Treasurer
 638 That looks like a good starting plan. Thank you 
 639 23:17:42
 640 dops
 641 A note to Michael J.: He formerly was part of the finance team. He knows at least some objectives, and ERP systems. 
 642 23:17:53
 643 A note about ERP systems: IMO we need a new one. 
 644 23:18:37
 645 FD
 646 Thanks for the info about Michael, Gero. 
 647 23:18:49
 648 Etienne
 649 Treasurer: Try to form a team with this 7. At the end there will be less. On of them can become the new treasurer. 
 650 23:19:13
 651 Treasurer
 652 @dops Thank you, useful information. With your comment, I remember having seen this name before. And, yes, we need a new software. 
 653 23:19:41
 654 Etienne
 655 Discuss the software topic with the 7. 
 656 23:19:42
 657 Treasurer
 658 Etienne, got it. 
 659 23:19:55
 660 Etienne
 661 Maybe you want a finance-team mailing list? 
 662 23:21:06
 663 Treasurer
 664 good idea 
 665 23:21:21
 666 Not mandatory, but surely useful 
 667 23:21:36
 668 FD
 669 As a side note, Christophe M is a top applicant too, he declared the highest proficiency of them all. But might be too busy at work. Worth to talk to him. 
 670 23:22:13
 671 Treasurer
 672 Yes. Let's talk together outside the meeting 
 673 23:22:23
 674 Etienne
 675 OK 
 676 23:22:25
 677 LambertHofstra, if you read this tomorrow: We have some people interested to join Arbitration. Can you check with your colleagues how to integrate them step by step in your team? 
 678 23:22:49
 679 Next topic, still team building: Software. 
 680 23:23:04
 681 FD, you had some ideas? 
 682 23:23:21
 683 FD
 684 In regards to building teams, I would suggest for that to hire first managers dedicated to that task. I mean, these people wanting to be members of the board. They could help at welcoming and dispatching new comers. At the moment, we are not a lot more than three of us to do it. 
 685 23:24:19
 686 We are the bottleneck. 
 687 23:24:48
 688 Etienne
 689 I agree. That is a kind as I proposed to support candidates to join the support mailing list and help there to show their comittment and help in the same time. 
 690 23:27:00
 691 FD
 692 I am going to propose you half a dozen names before the next meeting, of such people who may be asked to help at staffing the teams. 
 693 23:27:41
 694 Etienne
 695 Thank you. One interested in board stuff could write the minutes... 
 696 23:28:11
 697 FD
 698 Do you want me to write the minutes of the 5th of September? 
 699 23:28:25
 700 I know how boring it is to come back to old logs. 
 701 23:28:44
 702 I may do it, should you think it helps. 
 703 23:29:24
 704 Etienne
 705 No, I allready started, but as I am in holiday alone with my little boy, there is less time for such stuff until saturday. 
 706 23:29:38
 707 FD
 708 Ok, fine. 
 709 23:30:14
 710 I spent the week alone with mine (3 year old) too. :-) 
 711 23:30:29
 712 Etienne
 713 So, do you think we find some people that can motivate others to pick up bugs, join devel list etc.? 
 714 23:33:04
 715 FD
 716 What I learned from a talk with Tim (a dev who I helped two weeks ago by videoconference to solve a matter with his CAcert's code signing certificate), is that people of very good will, people wanting to help, these people won't move until the moment someone allocate one precise task to them. 
 717 23:33:15
 718 No manager, no work completed. 
 719 23:33:21
 720 This is a the bare equation. 
 721 23:34:04
 722 Coming back to your question, I would re-formulate it: Not as "could we find", but as "is it mandatory to find", The answer is yes. 
 723 23:35:12
 724 Etienne
 725 aah, now I understand. Yes, find to best tasks for each volunteer. That needs a task manager ;-) 
 726 23:36:04
 727 If you could find them (or at least some names that maybe....) that would be great. 
 728 23:36:15
 729 ← pnunn has quit (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) 
 730 23:36:42
 731 Etienne
 732 So Team Leads have mostl one contact and not douzends. That sounds very good. 
 733 23:38:23
 734 Etienne
 735 I think we get some good steps forewards. and we did the most pressing topics for today. 
 736 23:38:37
 737 FD
 738 Very true. 
 739 23:38:44
 740 Etienne
 741 Any important question for question time? 
 742 23:39:25
 743 FD
 744 Yes, perhaps for dops. 
 745 23:39:36
 746 Etienne
 747 Yes, please 
 748 23:40:38
 749 FD
 750 @dops: have you any information for helping us to understand the difficulties we had with Paypal recently ? Pleas, look at my question in "Question time", in the agenda. 
 751 23:40:43
 752 https://wiki.cacert.org/Brain/CAcertInc/Committee/MeetingAgendasAndMinutes/2019-10-10 
 753 23:40:54
 754 @dops 
 755 23:42:10
 756 FD
 757 dops left, I guess. 
 758 23:42:24
 759 dops
 760 no, I'm still here. 
 761 23:42:43
 762 Etienne
 763 dops, if you want, you can still answer 
 764 23:43:55
 765 FD
 766 @Gero: the second link directs to the mail I sent to you on Sun, 8 Sep 2019 22:43:17 +0200 
 767 23:44:19
 768 dops
 769 To make it short: I don't know. But the old link used HTTP POST, which has more possible parameters and therefore more complicated as the other option which I found by a link generator. 
 770 23:45:14
 771 Etienne
 772 Thank you, dops. 
 773 23:45:31
 774 dops
 775 For a complete answer one probably has to study technical integration offers by PayPal together with fees for different payment methods. 
 776 23:45:48
 777 FD
 778 And regarding the "payement" vs "donation" issue ? 
 779 23:45:52
 780 Etienne
 781 Of course. 
 782 23:46:11
 783 And friend and family and after 3 month it will change :-( 
 784 23:46:20
 785 FD
 786 From my mail: 
 787 23:46:21
 788 All "donations" were made in EUR and notified to Robert Cruikshank < paypal@cacert.org> 
 789 23:46:28
 790 All "payments" (including "seller protection") were made is AUD and notified to CAcert Incorporated < paypal@cacert.org> 
 791 23:46:36
 792 Fees are not the same. 
 793 23:47:08
 794 Etienne
 795 So, we should create new links for the AUD buttons. 
 796 23:47:43
 797 FD
 798 Who is "we"? :-) 
 799 23:48:13
 800 dops
 801 Robert might be the creator of the CAcert Inc. account. 
 802 23:48:17
 803 FD
 804 Gero, would you be kind enough for volunteering? 
 805 23:48:27
 806 Etienne
 807 Finance Team could dtart with this and evaluating the new software. 
 808 23:48:32
 809 dops
 810 FD: yes 
 811 23:49:21
 812 FD
 813 @etienne: better asking Gero. Finance team will do it in 2020. It is a pity to loose money on Paypal fees in the meantime. 
 814 23:49:57
 815 Etienne
 816 The secretary can provide PP access to dops. 
 817 23:50:50
 818 FD
 819 Gero, I would suggest to provide the new Paypal links as a ticket in Mantis, as it will require an update of our main software to be put in place on our main web page. 
 820 23:51:51
 821 dops
 822 good idea 
 823 23:52:34
 824 FD
 825 Well guys, 8 minutes before midnight, would it be time for bed? 
 826 23:52:55
 827 Etienne
 828 Next meeting: 24 or 31? I propose a general meeting on Thud 31-10-2019 and one about Crit Team with bdmc, egal, M..... and who wants <60 min on Thu 24-10-2019. 
 829 23:53:18
 830 FD
 831 OK 
 832 23:53:25
 833 Etienne
 834 Thank you. 
 835 23:53:33
 836 FD
 837 Thank you Etienne, 
 838 23:53:45
 839 Thank you Frédéric, 
 840 23:53:50
 841 Thank you Gero, 
 842 23:54:05
 843 and other perhaps silently on line. 
 844 23:54:06
 845 Etienne
 846 Thank you to all: dops, egal, bdmc, FD, Treasurer, ... 
 847 23:54:10
 848 Treasurer
 849 Etienne, say hello to C... 
 850 23:54:10
 851 Etienne
 852 pnunn 
 853 23:54:20
 854 FD
 855 Peter left, unfortunately. 
 856 23:54:34
 857 Etienne
 858 Treasurer: I will tomorrow morning. 
 859 23:54:57
 860 ← Treasurer has left  
 861 23:55:07
 862 Etienne
 863 So, I will close this meeting, See you again in two weeks here and before by mail. 
 864 23:55:28
 865 Good bye. 
 866 23:55:41
 867 FD
 868 Bue! 
 869 23:55:43
 870 Bye! 
 871 00:06:06
 872 ← dops has left  
 873 00:12:43
 874 ← FD has left (Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)