-- Sun Jun 15 08:53:51 2014 --
<Werner_Dworak> Hello Alex!
<Werner_Dworak> Duirk, are you there or only your server?
<alex-uk> Good Morning
<Werner_Dworak> As I see we do not yet have a quorum
<Werner_Dworak> Does someone know who will attend and who will not?
<alex-uk> ISTR Etienne suggested he'd be late
<alex-uk> Michael - probably not
<Werner_Dworak> What is ISTR
<alex-uk> I seem to remember
<Werner_Dworak> I assume yes
<alex-uk> No info about the others
<dirk_on_server> good morning ...
<dirk_on_server> sorry for being late ...
<Werner_Dworak> Hello Dirk,
<Werner_Dworak> fine you are there, so we have a quorum
<Werner_Dworak> So I open the meeting.
<Werner_Dworak> But first I must admit that I was very busy the last time, so I did nothing I promised
<Werner_Dworak> As a consequence I want to step back as president and maybe as board member too.
<Werner_Dworak> Since in the near and medium future I will be still more busy
<Werner_Dworak> 1.2 Since I did not write the minute, we cannot accept them now.
<magu_cic> Good Morning since Werner step back maybe we have CoI with President and DRO
<katzazi> I have to agreee with magu and know that the auditor had voiced additional concernes in the past
<dirk_on_server> can we add this later to the meeting?
<dirk_on_server> .... and keep the schedule?
<Werner_Dworak> 1.3 Who can make the minutes of today?
<Werner_Dworak> I suggest "new president" to take as 2.7
<alex-uk> I am only availanble until 1300 CEST but can take minutes if the meeting is over by then
<Werner_Dworak> Thank you Alex.
<Werner_Dworak> 1.4 What is to be disclosed or discussed from the board provate list that is not yet on the agenda?
<alex-uk> I move that we consider offices as part of 2.2
<katzazi> there are missing points that were put last time to the agenda and got lost because last meeting was closed early
<Werner_Dworak> Alex, I second that
<Werner_Dworak> Dirk?
<Werner_Dworak> Eva, name the topics you feel missing
<katzazi> the arbitration topics
<Werner_Dworak> Concrete please
<dirk_on_server> offices? .. subcommitee ... hmn ... yep ...
<dirk_on_server> aye to the motion ...
<alex-uk> aye
<Werner_Dworak> aye
<katzazi> key server list and especially the one form the sealed case - it is about communicating encrypted with board
<Werner_Dworak> Carried
<Werner_Dworak> We are at 1.4 amd maybe 2.1 What businesses shall be put on the agenda?
<katzazi> also I think that you said that you wanted to come back to the CA/B forum issue this time, but that was only how I understood you
<Werner_Dworak> Indeed. the we take CA/B forum as 2.8
<alex-uk> I'd no problem with CA/B - Etienne was to come back with proposal for DocOff role
<Werner_Dworak> More Item to add?
<katzazi> then I thought you wanted to hand over a case to arbitration but that is probably something for question time
<alex-uk> AFAICR we agreed on joining CA/B - with Benedikt acting as team rep
<katzazi> you wanted to read what you would have to accept and all and discuss it here
<dirk_on_server> hm ... i can consider the "president" as 2.2 as it may have something to do with the subcommitee ... but cabforum as 2.8 as late item?
<katzazi> I agreed that IF you decide to youn, Benedict would be the person who should lead an according team and that you think that it would be a good idea to do so
<dirk_on_server> 2.7 for "president" ... hm ...
<alex-uk> @katzazi - agreed
<dirk_on_server> ... do we have to add late items again to our agenda to have a 4-5 hour meeting?
<alex-uk> @Dirk - now in 2.2
<magu_cic> Werner_Dworak: items from board private and board public mailing list
<INOPIAE> As Benedikt cannot show up to day, he wants to know when board will be able to sign the join request.
<Werner_Dworak> Dirk, Alex suggested to take "president" as 2.2, so everything els moves up pne position
<katzazi> (uh I meant: "You agreed that IF you decide to join")
<dirk_on_server> @werner: i don't see this as a shift ...
<Werner_Dworak> More items to add from 1.4?
<alex-uk> Etienne's propoal for DocOff role?
<Werner_Dworak> Hmmm.I am confused now. Dirk, dan you take over the chair of this meeting?
<katzazi> hi michael :) nice to see you here
<dirk_on_server> @werner nope ...
<NEOatNHNG> Hi
<dirk_on_server> i'm not on my usual server ... not using my normal stuff ... and busy ...
<Werner_Dworak> Michael, we are at 1.4.
<dirk_on_server> (killed my server yesterday ... and it's around 30 km from here ...)
<Werner_Dworak> But before I declared that I want to step back as President and maybe as a borad member too, since I will be very busy in the near an medium future
<dirk_on_server> @werner: we my handle this within 2.2 (subcommitte) or add 2.7
<Werner_Dworak> Dirk, do you mean to handle "president" together with 2.2? Ok
<Werner_Dworak> Then CA/B will be 2.7
<alex-uk> OK
<Werner_Dworak> More items to add from 1.4?
<katzazi> what with the items from last meeting were they added?
<Werner_Dworak> At present I don't see them. 
<katzazi> I only can post chat log as there was no motion posted from last meeting
<INOPIAE> Jrgen will not attend as he is on a rescue mission in Berechtesgarden.
<Werner_Dworak> Fine Marcus for that messaage. I nearly expected it
<katzazi> [10:37:50] <alex-uk> 1) Update key persons list (1.6)
<Werner_Dworak> Dir, you are faster than me, can you nema the missing topica, so we will add them?
<katzazi> for examle
<katzazi> form last board meeting
<dirk_on_server> i wan't online during the last meeting ...
<alex-uk> Update Key Persons list is an outstanding action item.
<Werner_Dworak> By the way, to my avaliability, I must mive to another domocile, so I maybe have no Internet for some time at all. So I cannot do anything with some bad luck
<Werner_Dworak> Alex, Indeed, But at present I cannot do that
<dirk_on_server> i wasn't online (... damned typo)
<katzazi> the encrypted communication was requested in an arbitration ruling (the deadline already passed)
<katzazi> and you added it as well together to the agenda last time
<katzazi> again: I do not mind if you do not discuss it hear (especially because of the seal) as long as you report a result for this to arbitration
<alex-uk> so 2.8 encrypted mail to teams??
<dirk_on_server> to continue this meeting (before alex and i will disappear) ...
<dirk_on_server> let's add 2.7 "exncrypted email" ...
<Werner_Dworak> Eva, I am not shure what conmmunication can be encrypted, technically. Wytze told something.
<dirk_on_server> ... and move the cabforum to the next meeting ...
<katzazi> what with key persons list? (it is only suggested to cover this but critical team also complained about it not working in another case since last meeting)
<dirk_on_server> alex will leaver at around 13:00 (as far as i saw ... and me too (latest))
<katzazi> it should be possilbe - you should communicate with org admins and I know that they could propose something
<Werner_Dworak> Eva, as I told, I promised it but I cannot hold it any longer
<dirk_on_server> if there is time enough we MAY add the cabforum later
<dirk_on_server> can we continue with our agenda?
<Werner_Dworak> Ok, we go on to 1.5
<alex-uk> I move to leave "late business" open and deal with what we can now
<Werner_Dworak> Are items to add from board list here?
<Werner_Dworak> Alex, I second it
<dirk_on_server> aye
<alex-uk> aye
<Werner_Dworak> aye
<katzazi> I know that board member constallation is a pressing matter - but security issues may be pressing at any time, as well
<dirk_on_server> katzazi: 2.7? ;-)
<Werner_Dworak> 1.6 Action items. Nothing was done. Who can take over?
<Werner_Dworak> 2.1 I move to add all late business ad hoc
<alex-uk> second and aye
<Werner_Dworak> aye
<dirk_on_server> all? ..
<dirk_on_server> i think we agreed to president and encrypted mail ... but cabforum?
<Werner_Dworak> Dirk, we look what we can handle today and what we must move to the next meeting
<dirk_on_server> okay ... 
<dirk_on_server> aye ...
<dirk_on_server> (2 hours left ;-) )
<Werner_Dworak> 2.2 Update subcommittee and new president
<magu_cic> @after moving all topics please post a complet new agenda list to the chat
<NEOatNHNG> I move to draw agm date to the front
<dirk_on_server> @magu: we didn't move ... ;-)
<dirk_on_server> added: 2.7 president (if not handled by 2.2), 2.8 encrypted mail, 2.9 cabforum?
<Werner_Dworak> Fine
<alex-uk> Any added items will be minuted as they are dealt with
<NEOatNHNG> I mean the agenda item agm date
<dirk_on_server> 2.6 is already on the agenda: AGM date
<Werner_Dworak> I assume there are no news to subvommittee now. Is there anything go discuss here if we handle "president" as 2.7?
<alex-uk> President needs to be handled today - do it now!
<Werner_Dworak> Yo meann as 2.2?
<dirk_on_server> @alex: 2.7
<alex-uk> Yes
<dirk_on_server> !
<NEOatNHNG> I suggest that we handle agm date first, then discuss president
<dirk_on_server> 2.6 first ... then 2.7 ... then the rest ... okay ... ;-)
<alex-uk> @dirk - OK
<Werner_Dworak> Ok, then we hanfle now 2.6 When is the next AGM?
<INOPIAE> what number is related to which topic?
<dirk_on_server> in the past we did the AGM in november or december ...
<Werner_Dworak> Ok, then we handle now 2.6 When is the next AGM?
<dirk_on_server> ... the "blocker" were the bank-data-issues in the past ...
<dirk_on_server> since michael told us, that only the values from secure-u are missing, michael (treasuerer) will be ready real fast now ...
<Werner_Dworak> ... because of the late financial report. Michael, whan can you present the financial report?
<dirk_on_server> therefore we can do the AGM earliest in july ... ;-)
<dirk_on_server> (well ... we have to keep the time-frame before the AGM)
<dirk_on_server> therefore an AGM will be possible earliest in august i think ...
<alex-uk> Is there any real reason to hold it so soon??
<NEOatNHNG> Mid August should be no problem for the agm
<alex-uk> August is holidays for many...
<dirk_on_server> @alex ... why should we do it so late?
<Werner_Dworak> Shall we fix it now? Whan?
<dirk_on_server> s/so//
<dirk_on_server> @alex: beginning of september?
<alex-uk> Call in september when people are back from hols - means Oct or Nov for AGM
<dirk_on_server> according to our rules we have to do the AGM between july and december
<katzazi> call can be done anytime
<dirk_on_server> @alex: let's do the call now (within the next weeks) and do the AGM in september
<dirk_on_server> (wehn everybody is back from summer holiday)
<Werner_Dworak> Alex, many prople to holidays outsice the main season, and there are other activities too. You never have all people available
<dirk_on_server> when werner runs out of time/communitcation possibilities we should do the AGM early to avoid COIs or a non-working board ...
<Werner_Dworak> I second Dirk. Announce now, date in Septemper 
<katzazi> ... if you postpone the AGM as long and werner actually steps back as board member we may need a SGM instead...
<dirk_on_server> (and ... i hope, that werner will stay until the AGM (if we hold it early) ... ;-) )
<Werner_Dworak> I cannot promis anything, since the movong can be chaotic
<dirk_on_server> it would be better for external recognition of CACert ... ;-)
<Werner_Dworak> But ind4eed, this would be a reason for an early AGM
<alex-uk> @dirk - why??
<Werner_Dworak> I doen't look good if the board is not funcional
<alex-uk> Board is already non-funtional due to insufficient AU members and has been since last AGM
<Werner_Dworak> So, when is the ealiest sensible date for an AGM?
<dirk_on_server> august, 31?
<alex-uk> September 30
<Werner_Dworak> Alex, holidays is to real issue
<katzazi> alex why do you think that nothing else would be possible+
<dirk_on_server> @alex: why september, 30 ?
<NEOatNHNG> August 31 or September 19
<katzazi> why do you think that you need 1/4 of the legislatie time to prepare for a A/SGM? 
<alex-uk> due notice needed + time for responses and time for teams to prepare reports all need to be considered
<Werner_Dworak> Isn't Juli or early august possible
<katzazi> reports should be awailable soon independent from when the meeting is 
<alex-uk> Could call SGM soooner
<dirk_on_server> @alex: that makes no sense (IMHO)
<katzazi> everybody should be aware of AGMs taking place shortly after the year is over at 30.6.
<Werner_Dworak> Maybe we need a SGM
<NEOatNHNG> Strictly speaking 1st of August would be the first possible for agm
<dirk_on_server> @alex: do you need 3 months for an report ????
<NEOatNHNG> Sorry 1st of July
<alex-uk> Year hasn't ended yet and most teams probably haven't even started to think about reports.
<katzazi> it ends 30.6. alex
<Werner_Dworak> But all reports can be prepared now and updated if needed till AGM.
<katzazi> why do you think teams need 3 month to report?
<dirk_on_server> werner: correct
<katzazi> (I could do the one for arbitration within days for example - it's not my job but it's a team I'm member with - same for testing)
<alex-uk> OK - I stll suggest that later in September is probably better than over the summer period
<Werner_Dworak> Michael, from your PoV, wthen is the financial report possible?
<dirk_on_server> @alex: normally: yes ... but not in the case the president/board is not functional/runs out of time/...
<Werner_Dworak> Alex, ther is no reson to postpone. Do it as early as possible
<Werner_Dworak> Michael, from your PoV, when is the financial report possible?
<alex-uk> If we are that dysfunctional, we probably need to close down....
<NEOatNHNG> Financial report is possible mid July
<Werner_Dworak> Not so fast. There is nothing that prevents an erly AGM
<dirk_on_server> as far as i know we have the followig deadlines ...
<Werner_Dworak> Michael, fine
<Werner_Dworak> Thank you
<dirk_on_server> 14 days when there is no special resolution
<katzazi> board being not able to function because people having issues is no reason to shut down but to have a A/SGM to select a new board
<dirk_on_server> 21 days when we have special resolutions
<dirk_on_server> which means: 4 weeks es enough time
<Werner_Dworak> Fine Dirk
<dirk_on_server> (earliest therefore: july, 13
<alex-uk> assuming notice is sent almost immediately,,,
<dirk_on_server> nope ...
<Werner_Dworak> Dirk, but with special resolutions July, 20th
<dirk_on_server> alex/werner: 4 weeks = july 13
<dirk_on_server> 3 weeks = july 6
<NEOatNHNG> We can send out invitations before the end of the financial year
<dirk_on_server> 2 weeks = june 29
<dirk_on_server> (if we send out the notiications today)
<Werner_Dworak> Don't we have to count from June 30?
<dirk_on_server> well ... june 29 is too early ... ;-)
<dirk_on_server> nope ... from today ...
<katzazi> it should be after june
<dirk_on_server> @katzazi ... correct ... 
<Werner_Dworak> So I move we fix the AGM for July, 13th.
<NEOatNHNG> Werner, will the board report ready then?
<dirk_on_server> @neo: everybody of us can do this ...
<Werner_Dworak> I assume I cannot do it for moving
<dirk_on_server> @neo: this should not be a blocker
<NEOatNHNG> And I would prefer one week later to have time for financial report
<dirk_on_server> agress to neo
<NEOatNHNG> Especially if we want members give some days to look at it
<dirk_on_server> I move to fix the date for the next AGM for July, 20th.
<NEOatNHNG> Second Dirk
<Werner_Dworak> Michale, you mean Juli, 20th? Okay from me
<Werner_Dworak> second and aye
<alex-uk> I'd suggest end of July - 27th - if you are determined - leave some time for members to propose any motions too...
<dirk_on_server> aye
<alex-uk> nsy
<alex-uk> nay
<Werner_Dworak> But it is carried anyway
<Werner_Dworak> So, AGM ist fixed for 2014-07-20
<Werner_Dworak> 2.7 New president
<NEOatNHNG> We need a time too
<dirk_on_server> 21:00 local time in germany?
<Werner_Dworak> Who can take it till the AGM?
<alex-uk> I could caretake on a short term basis, but it is not a good idea to have two "heads of power" in one person
<dirk_on_server> @werner: alex can, i can ... but we both have COIs: alex with DRP and i being secure-u president
<Werner_Dworak> Dirk, isn't that too early for Australians?
<dirk_on_server> DRO
<Werner_Dworak> I think, CoI should be avoided if possible. But it it is not possible, we have no other choice
<Werner_Dworak> to take it
<katzazi> dirk has no office inside of board
<katzazi> or the dro post can change
<Werner_Dworak> Eva, but Dirk is president of secure-u, wghich can be a CoI
<alex-uk> or can be handled until the AGM as a short term measure... I would stand down from board before standing down as DRO
<Werner_Dworak> From my PoV I had no objections against Dirk
<alex-uk> Nor I
<Werner_Dworak> Shall we find a decision now or ask the other board members too?
<dirk_on_server> okay ... this means i will have to take over the presidents chair until AGM ... ;-)
<alex-uk> I think thr
<katzazi> alex-uk: I just posted possible options to avoid CoI
<dirk_on_server> however: when there are decisions for/against secure-u i will vote with "substain" ...
<dirk_on_server> abstain
<alex-uk> I think other board members should be consulted for agreement to Dirk - and if they agree then we go with that
<Werner_Dworak> Alex, okay
<dirk_on_server> i will (try to) stay in contact with werner ...
<katzazi> than you have the CoI with DRO and Vice/President IF werner steps down today
<Werner_Dworak> Dirk, though possivle, I don't see any real CoI with cesure-u
<Werner_Dworak> possible
<dirk_on_server> however: i suggest to take over the chair only and to keep werner as president until he AGM
<alex-uk> @katzazi - anyone has CoI of some sort - I can chair meetings on the same basis as Dirk - just shouild not take on President 
<Werner_Dworak> As long as I am available. But regard, maybe I can be some time without internet
<dirk_on_server> okay ..
<alex-uk> I move - subject to board agreement that we appoint Dirk as "acting president" during Werner's unavailablity
<Werner_Dworak> Second and aye
<dirk_on_server> nope ..
<alex-uk> aye
<dirk_on_server> we can't exchange the president ... ;-)
<dirk_on_server> there is no "acting president" ... ;-)
<Werner_Dworak> Why not? It is an agreement inside the board. No totice to any autorities needed
<NEOatNHNG> Agree with Dirk here, let's just agree on a chair for board meetings
<dirk_on_server> @alex: we will figure out an usable way until the AGM ...
<katzazi> you con move the posts between board members but you cannot define someone as acting president - there is the role of vice president for that as I see it
<Werner_Dworak> Is the anything that denies changing offices?
<katzazi> if you step down the post has to be filled again as I see it
<katzazi> but the question is if this gives the picture you want to give to the public
<dirk_on_server> let's keep the rols as they are now ... 
<Werner_Dworak> I told I stepped down as president since I can no linger fill it with life
<dirk_on_server> ... and define a "chair" until the next AGM
<dirk_on_server> (to avoid bad reputation against CAcert)
<Werner_Dworak> The chair can be agreed at any moment
<dirk_on_server> correct ... either alex or me ...
<dirk_on_server> alex for the board-meetings, i for the AGM? ;-)
<Werner_Dworak> Anything more to 2.7?
<Werner_Dworak> So we come to 2.3.1 Move CAcert Inc. to another countrym,  Statutes/Organisation
<alex-uk> I offer to step down as VP and propose that we appoint Dirk as VP 
<NEOatNHNG> Ftr I vote naye for the open motion
<dirk_on_server> @neo: this was for the "acting president motion" ...
<dirk_on_server> correct?
<NEOatNHNG> Yes
<katzazi> alex: you suggest that werner stays president and you change dirk to vice?
<NEOatNHNG> I would accept the resignation as vp to avoid coi
<dirk_on_server> okay ... makes sense ...
<alex-uk> yes - it would clarify who is what....
<dirk_on_server> okay ... prepare the motion ... ;-)
<katzazi> the question remains if werner could live with this as he is the one to decide if he steps down or can wait until AGM
<Werner_Dworak> I assume "I move - subject to board agreement that we appoint Dirk as "acting president" during Werner's unavailablity" is cancelled? Do you agree?
<alex-uk> I withdraw the motion as it hasn't been voted
<NEOatNHNG> I move that we accept Alex's resignation as vice president (not as board member).
<alex-uk> second and aye
<NEOatNHNG> Aye
<Werner_Dworak> I told, I deninitively resigns as president and will not serve any longer
<dirk_on_server> aye
<Werner_Dworak> aye
<Werner_Dworak> carried
<alex-uk> I move that we accept Werner's resignation as president
<NEOatNHNG> We should first vote on a new vice
<NEOatNHNG> I propose Dirk as vice
<alex-uk> no - there's another motion on the table....
<dirk_on_server> @alex_uk: no ...
<dirk_on_server> @neo: yes
<dirk_on_server> let me sum up the motions:
<Werner_Dworak> So, "We should first vote on a new vice.	I propose Dirk as vice" is the active motion. Right?
<dirk_on_server> alex resigns as VP: carried
<dirk_on_server> dirk as "acting president": withdrawn
<dirk_on_server> werner resigns: not started (and i would avoid it)
<dirk_on_server> dirk as VP: not started
<dirk_on_server> (did i miss something? ;-) )
<alex-uk> Werner was quite emphatic....
<NEOatNHNG> My idea would be to leave president open till the agm
<Werner_Dworak> What is the next step? What motion is needed=
<alex-uk> If he has "definitely resigned" it should be accepted
<katzazi> sure but it is sensible to fix vice before of that
<alex-uk> and a new president appointed
<dirk_on_server> @alex: nope ... to avoid bad reputation for CAcert next to the AGM
<alex-uk> vice would step up until board appoints a new president
<dirk_on_server> can we fix the VP-issue to get the other items done within the next 45 minutes? ,_)
<NEOatNHNG> As said I would accept Werner's resignation but leave that seat unfilled
<alex-uk> new presidient may or may not be the vp.
<Werner_Dworak> Dirk, do you mean, to the outside nothing changes and internal is uncritival?
<dirk_on_server> for president: yes
<katzazi> alex no
<katzazi> one cannot be both the posts are exclusive
<NEOatNHNG> I move to appoint Dirk as vice president.
<alex-uk> VP can be appointed to president - it is exclusive and resignation from the VP post would be implicit
<dirk_on_server> second and aye
<katzazi> alex there is no VP at the moment
<dirk_on_server> (to neo)
<Werner_Dworak> Neo, axe
<Werner_Dworak> aye
<NEOatNHNG> Aye
<alex-uk> abstain
<Werner_Dworak> Carried
<Werner_Dworak> Is still something to do for 2.7 or can we go to 2.3?
<dirk_on_server> then let's fix the time for the AGM ... 20 UTC
<magu_cic> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingdetails.html?year=2014&month=7&day=19&hour=20&min=0&sec=0&p1=37&p2=136&p3=240&p4=179
<Werner_Dworak> Looks good
<NEOatNHNG> Ok now Werner do you keep up your resignation or can you live with being inactive until the agm?
<alex-uk> @Werner - are you prepared to stay on as president with Dirk carrying the load?
<NEOatNHNG> Dirk: ack, can you propose a motion
<dirk_on_server> i move to hold the AGM at 20 UTC 
<NEOatNHNG> Second and aye
<Werner_Dworak> Hmmm, I would prefer to really resign, but I could live to be inactivetoo.
<Werner_Dworak> aye to the motion
<alex-uk> aye
<dirk_on_server> aye
<Werner_Dworak> carried
<NEOatNHNG> Werner then take some time to decide and at least I would support any way you decide
<NEOatNHNG> Afk
<Werner_Dworak> As Dirk suggested, I can stay formally as president but show no more activity
<dirk_on_server> okay ... we did 2.1 ... 2.6 ... 2.7 ... what's the next item?
<dirk_on_server> shall i use a dice? ;-)
<Werner_Dworak> I assume 2.3 Move CAcert Inc. to another country
<Werner_Dworak> 2.3.1. Statutes/Organisation
<NEOatNHNG> Back
<Werner_Dworak> Are there news? I assume no.
<alex-uk> I've not heard anything for 2.3.1 and no move possible on 2.3.2 until .1 moves
<Werner_Dworak> Anything more to 2.3 now?
<Werner_Dworak> Then we go to 2.4 Documentation Officer
<alex-uk> Etienne posted a new job descrition in board-private
<Werner_Dworak> Do you agree to Etiennes suggestion for the formulation?
<katzazi> it is polGs job to define it
<alex-uk> I'm happy with it 
<Werner_Dworak> I too
<katzazi> there is a WIP document on policy side
<alex-uk> @katxaxi - NO! all team leader roles are executive - WiPs are NOT policy
<katzazi> and the post is mentioned in at least one draft policy
<katzazi> I know this alex - nonetheless it is the job of polg to define it
<alex-uk> and the policy requirement is explicity recognised in the current JD
<magu_cic> can I read Etiennes suggestion?
<INOPIAE> I think you should put the proposal at least public so that the member have the chance to comment it
<alex-uk> @katzazi - I explicitly disagree - Board and it's officers run the organisation
<katzazi> based on the policies defined in the policies via PoP procedures
<Werner_Dworak> 1. The Documentation officer is responsible for the definition and maintenance of a standard format for official documents as specified in PoP 2.4) including the definition of appropriate file formats for publications.
<Werner_Dworak> 2. The Document officer should periodically review the mechanisms for managing, controlling and updating official documents and ensure that such mechanisms are both fit for purpose and do not unduly delay the publishing of updated documents.
<Werner_Dworak>  3. The Documentation Officer provides guidelines for writing and maintaining documentation.
<Werner_Dworak>  
<Werner_Dworak>  4. The Document officer manages documentation that is not managed directly by the relevant teams
<Werner_Dworak>  5. The Document officer coordinates efforts on improving, altering or consolidating documentation where the documentation is across mutiple teams
<Werner_Dworak>  6. The Document Officer coordinates versions (and may assist with the publication) of documents within the Controlled Document set and he is responsible for ensuring that the meta-data (editor, state of approval, ...) in those documents is both correct and regularly updated.
<Werner_Dworak>  7. The Document Officer may advise or make recommendations to teams on providing clarification to documentation.
<Werner_Dworak>  8. The Document Officer may be required to undertake other work requested by Board or requested by the Community through the Documentation/WishList.
<BenBE> I suggest to do the following motion: Undo the two motions katzazi is complaining about and discuss further proceeding afterwards.
<Werner_Dworak> Benny, you cannot jus undo a motion. You have to replace it by a new motion. Who formukates the new motion?
<katzazi> i suggested to remove the effects but it was not acceptable last time
<alex-uk> The current situation is that the role exists and that it is held empty pending the new definition of the role.
<Werner_Dworak> WHO FORMULATES THE NEW MOTION?
<Werner_Dworak> Eve, did you ask your candidate if he would accept the role of DO? Can his name published now?
<alex-uk> I suggest that this point is adjourned to the next meeting - I will forward the new job desxription to board-public
<Werner_Dworak> Eva, did you ask your candidate if he would accept the role of DO? Can his name published now?
<katzazi> it is not my job to ask anybody anything in this regard
<katzazi> and I told you last time that i did
<Werner_Dworak> It is your candidate you suggested
<katzazi> and currently I MAY not do so if your two motions are valid
<katzazi> no 
<katzazi> someone volunteered
<alex-uk> no-one has volunteered to board for the appointment
<katzazi> yes - board can do the tasks as well - you said that you can and will do it in last meeting
<katzazi> even if benedikt and I saw a CoI there
<katzazi> and it is not just any policy but one of the CODs (COD3) so there is a high indication that it is something to define by policyG
<alex-uk> Hello Lambert
<Werner_Dworak> Hello Lambert
<dirk_on_server> hi
<alex-uk> A wip may or may not become policy - and it may be subject to a board veto at the point it is voted - that is for another day
<alex-uk> However, it is not policy groups job to define the management roles within CAcert IMO
<alex-uk> @Werner - there seems to be no motion currently - I suggest again that this point be adjourned to the next meeting
<katzazi> support sa crit etc are defined by SP
<katzazi> not by board
<katzazi> arb is defined by DRP not by board
<katzazi> PolO is defined by PoP not by board
<alex-uk> They are defined in part by SP - not in total
<katzazi> most posts and roles are defined in policies as in the officer roles and teams overview
<katzazi> not by board
<alex-uk> (10 mins left)
<dirk_on_server> 10 minutes left? ...
<dirk_on_server> next meeting next week or in 2 weeks?
<Werner_Dworak> I assume. And the same time
<alex-uk> I can't make next week - and two weeks is dodgy!
<alex-uk> same time is best
<dirk_on_server> then i suggest: next week in the evening (if possible)
<Werner_Dworak> Alex, can you do in 14 days?
<dirk_on_server> and in 2 weeks in the morning ...
<alex-uk> I can't make next week at all
<alex-uk> 14 days am probably OK with 3 hour maximum
<Werner_Dworak> Alex, next wee no one suggested
<dirk_on_server> that's why i would say: next week in the evening to give boardmembers the chance to join if they are blocked in the morning
<dirk_on_server> like juergen or etienne
<dirk_on_server> and in two weeks in the morning again
<dirk_on_server> to give you the possibility to join
<dirk_on_server> i would prefer weekly meetings before the AGM ... (but short ones)
<Werner_Dworak> Who prefers morning? Wh evenibng?
<Werner_Dworak> I don't mind
<NEOatNHNG> I won't attend any time. Still busy
<alex-uk> Evenings are bad for me
<Werner_Dworak> Sorry
<Werner_Dworak> Alex, but are they possible
<alex-uk> not really unless they are very very late for you and are rather dependent on how my medication affects me
<alex-uk> mornings are much preferable
<dirk_on_server> @alex: for you .. but not for me ...
<alex-uk> It's no good if I'm asleep!  ;)
<dirk_on_server> @alex: that's why i suggest: next week in the evening ... and in two weeks in the morning again
<Werner_Dworak> Okay
<alex-uk> I'm ok with that - I'll not be there next week, so see you in two weeks
<alex-uk> I'll need your evening time for the minutes
<dirk_on_server> correct ... i'll send an invitation via mail today or tomorrow ...
<Werner_Dworak> Since Alex leaves nor and Dirk too, we have no more a quorum. Is something urgent for now?
<alex-uk> I will do the minutes later today - you'll have to update next meeting dates etx...
<magu_cic> next board meeting 2014-06-29?
<Werner_Dworak> 4.2 I see nothing. So I close the meeting now.
<dirk_on_server> next week in the evening: time to be defined
<dirk_on_server> in two weeks same time as today
<magu_cic> ok dirk_on_server thx
<NEOatNHNG> Bye
<alex-uk> OK - Byr
<dirk_on_server> see you next time ... have a nice week (or two ;-) )
<alex-uk> And you....
